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Topic: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games (Read 539982 times) |
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #225 on: Jun 11th, 2010, 6:57am » |
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on Jun 10th, 2010, 2:24pm, MarkSteere wrote:
15 pages of self-flagellation. It's a story of love and endurance. |
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And as far as I'm concerned, it has reached its conclusion. I thank all the contributors  .
Mark, it's lonely at the top, you're so high that mere humans can't hear you. You really should try to shout louder, use more bold, more capital letters, more exclamation marks!
Don't worry about your current inventor's block, it'll pass and then we'll all suffer the consequences  .
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| « Last Edit: Jun 11th, 2010, 7:14am by christianF » |
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MarkSteere
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #226 on: Jun 11th, 2010, 7:26am » |
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on Jun 11th, 2010, 6:57am, christianF wrote:
Don't worry about your current inventor's block, it'll pass and then we'll all suffer the consequences . |
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Ok lol
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #227 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 5:03am » |
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It so happened that life went on. I stopped pursuing new games, so therse recent additions are mainly solidified loose ends.
With one exception.
As you all know, a squaregrid with one set of diagonals is topologically equivalent with the hexgid:
While considering the board of Alquerque in a different context, I noticed that this grid, too, is obtained by removing half the diagonals from the square grid, albeit half of both directions intead of all in one direction.
This led to the question whether these 'twins' might have some properties in common, and that of course led to 'connection' and games like Hex, Twixt and Crossway. So here is Query.
As far as I could check it's new (quite surprisingly so), and the name Query doesn't show up at BBG either so I expect no complaints on that front.
The rules are what you'de expect: Black and White take turns to put one stone on a vacant intersection of the board. Black begins by putting one stone, after which White is entiteld to a swap.
White tries to connect the upper and lower side of the board, Black the left and right side, following the lines of the board. The cornerpoints belong to both sides.
Not an 'invention' actually, more something I stumbled over accidentally.
Is it a fun game? I don't know. I can predict Mu's behaviour because it's a self explanatory organism. Here I've got no clue except logic.
I'm not attempting a formal proof here, but it would seem that one connection excludes the other, and that mutual blockade is impossible. Clearly there are strong and weak points, eights and fours, and within both sets there will probably be stronger points nearer the center, weaker points going outward. So there's a good chance the swaprule fits properly.
I must admit to the absence of any 'feeling' regarding the game's behaviour, just that it's finite and one will win. That's the one who was smarter and that's what makes it a game  .
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Polyfractal
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #228 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 7:09am » |
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Oh boy this thread is something else. 
Gonna make some popcorn and read through the whole thing
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MarkSteere
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #229 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 8:00am » |
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Very interesting. Nice work, Christian.
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #230 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 10:05am » |
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on Jun 20th, 2010, 8:00am, MarkSteere wrote:| Very interesting. Nice work, Christian. |
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Thanks, most of the work was making the graphics  .
'Nice' is an open question too. Michael Howe posted a critical question at BGG:
"Query has c-8 and c-4, so I'd be concerned that the former would be so much more important than the latter as to unbalance the game. Players would play on almost all of the c-8 before playing on any of the c-4. Can you give us a sample problem where c-4 play is critical?"
I don't know the answer: one might consider a vacant four with adjacent alternating eights 'critical'.
There are two players and a probably decent swap, no imbalance there. If eights are more important, then players should try to do without fours and see where it leads. My guess is: into fours, eventually.
But my guess is as good as Michael's. I never played it and I won't for the forseeable future due to work on a draughts project.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2010, 11:10am by christianF » |
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MarkSteere
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #231 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 10:51am » |
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on Jun 20th, 2010, 10:05am, christianF wrote:
Thanks, most of the work was making the graphics .
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All of the work was making the graphics. Hex works on a wide variety of tessellations, including this one (from an old file):
That Hex also works on the octagon/square tessellation rotated 45 degrees, ala Query, should be little surprise. I'm not sure if this "discovery" warrants a renaming of Hex, but...
You see, I happen to know a thing or two about connection games.
MSG connection games
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #232 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 10:59am » |
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on Jun 20th, 2010, 10:51am, MarkSteere wrote:That's what I was hoping for, I wasn't (and still am not) sure if I had anything new here. I was aware of a load of similar ideas, but I don't keep track all the time. Thanks .
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MarkSteere
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #233 on: Jun 28th, 2010, 7:06pm » |
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New MSG game: Fractal, a Hex variant
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omar
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #234 on: Jul 1st, 2010, 8:46am » |
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Cool. Since it uses a hexagonal board, maybe even Havannah would work on a fractal board with a larger base.
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MarkSteere
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #235 on: Jul 1st, 2010, 5:01pm » |
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on Jul 1st, 2010, 8:46am, omar wrote:| Cool. Since it uses a hexagonal board, maybe even Havannah would work on a fractal board with a larger base. |
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Thanks, Omar Fractal seems to be making quite a splash. I thought Cage was more interesting but, as usual, my public disagrees.
This is the second time since I released Fractal a couple of days ago that someone has recommended its board for Havannah. You're raining on my parade, Christian
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #236 on: Jul 2nd, 2010, 4:06am » |
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on Jul 1st, 2010, 5:01pm, MarkSteere wrote:| You're raining on my parade, Christian |
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It's all relative, you might as well be parading in my rain
I think Fractal introduces an interesting new concept that might find wider applications, so you'll always be the first one to think of it, whatever games it may turn up in. Consider it sunshine
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #237 on: Jul 2nd, 2010, 4:32am » |
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P.S. Concerning Query, Michael Howe informed me about Wayne Schmittberger who, in a c-7 c-4 game decided to allow a choice each turn between two c-4 and one c-7.
I think that would be an excellent idea for Query: two c-4 or one c-8.
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MarkSteere
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #238 on: Jul 2nd, 2010, 6:34am » |
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on Jul 2nd, 2010, 4:06am, christianF wrote:
Consider it sunshine |
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It's decided then. Fractannah!
It won't be the first time we've shared a game board in some sense.
Havannah is printed on the backside of Hexboard's Atoll board.
Atoll front / Havannah back.
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leo
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #239 on: Jul 10th, 2010, 12:21pm » |
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It reminds me that I once made an applet to play on a board that could be fractally expanded "from within", so to say, as players split connections between nodes. When the maximum recursion depth was large or infinite, there was a zoom command on the mousewheel to see the finer details. At the time I searched the web if the concept existed but found nothing similar. I can't believe nobody had come up with it before.
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