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Topic: hanzack's sandbagged games (Read 4025 times) |
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omar
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Arimaa player #2
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #15 on: Jan 11th, 2012, 12:39am » |
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on Jan 9th, 2012, 11:11pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Omar, hanzack hasn't posted in the forum for half a year. I think the odds are good he won't read your appeals here. |
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I also sent a message to him by email.
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aaaa
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Arimaa player #958
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #16 on: Jan 13th, 2012, 2:30pm » |
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Here's another one.
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mistre
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #17 on: Feb 3rd, 2012, 7:58am » |
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Well, making the games unrated has not deterred Hanzack from resigning games with goals in 1 and he has even started resigning with goals in 2.
I don't claim to know his motivation for doing so, but the only thing I can think of is to make his record look weaker so that he will be underestimated in the event matches. Now that he has beaten Chessandgo and is ranked #4 in WHR, I think the cat is out of the bag (if it wasn't before). So what motivation he still has is a mystery.
To me, it is a bit of a disgrace to see a top player (maybe even the best) Arimaa player in the world purposely resign games in winnable positions. Maybe I shouldn't care about all this, but it just strikes me as a mockery to the system.
Maybe there is a way we can take away his resign button....
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Belteshazzar
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #18 on: Feb 3rd, 2012, 10:16am » |
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Taking away his resign button wouldn't stop him. He could time out, suicide all of his rabbits, intentionally give the opponent a goal, etc. Nonetheless, I think that it might be a good idea to do what you suggest and disable his resign button if possible. I keep thinking that he might out of habit resign an event game. As far as skill goes, he would be an ideal Challenge defender, but would Omar dare tab him?
Maybe the resign button could be disabled for all event games?
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| « Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2012, 10:20am by Belteshazzar » |
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rbarreira
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #19 on: Feb 3rd, 2012, 10:45am » |
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Just be careful what you wish for, it's much better to have a hanzack who resigns games than to alienate him by doing overly harsh things such as removing his resign button, which IMO starts crossing the line to "picking on him" territory.
Don't get me wrong, hanzack's resignations used to annoy me a bit as well. But right now I think just let him do what he wants... If he wants to have a low rating, that doesn't hurt anyone that much.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2012, 10:47am by rbarreira » |
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #20 on: Feb 3rd, 2012, 12:27pm » |
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Sandbagging is anti-social. Requiring someone to stop sandbagging is not picking on him. At least, that is my opinion.
Unfortunately, any enforcement can be easily circumvented by creating duplicate accounts, which in turn can only be halted by blocking IP addresses. Furthermore, as I have said in other threads, I am very eager to have more strong players, so I don't want to alienate anyone by harsh measures. I can see why Omar prefers to rely on persuasion rather than enforcement.
Of course, if hanzack refuses to be persuaded, we have a dilemma. Some people will say continuing to sandbag after repeated warnings to stop is not an offense which should trigger any enforcement. I disagree. Yes, hanzack's low rating isn't very harmful to anyone who knows his true playing strength, but not everyone knows. I can decide to play only unrated games against him (except in events) or decide not to play him at all (except in events), but people without full information can't make those decisions.
The main social purpose of ratings is not to seed tournaments; it is to help people find evenly-matched games, and to give people a rough indication of their progress. Sandbagging is disruptive and makes arimaa.com a worse experience for other people, particularly for newcomers who play hanzack expecting to get an evenly-matched game. Many people have felt bad to be crushed by someone whose rating is in the 1300's. Anyone who hurts their own rating by playing a rated game against hanzack doesn't get a true indication of his own progress. It's not funny, it does hurt other people, and it needs to stop.
What would you say, Ricardo, if you knew there was someone who started to take up Arimaa but quit after getting blown off the board by hanzack, not understanding that hanzack's rating is a lie? Is it more important not to alienate hanzack than not to alienate that newcomer?
My suggestion is to have the next warning to hanzack not to sandbag be accompanied by resetting his rating to whatever performance rating he achieves during the World Championship. Then, if he throws games on purpose to get rid of those points, deactivate his account. But since it is Omar who would have to do any enforcement anyway, it is Omar's opinion on the matter that counts.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2012, 12:48pm by Fritzlein » |
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Boo
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #21 on: Feb 3rd, 2012, 1:14pm » |
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Quote:| The main social purpose of ratings is not to seed tournaments; it is to help people find evenly-matched games, and to give people a rough indication of their progress. Sandbagging is disruptive and makes arimaa.com a worse experience for other people, particularly for newcomers who play hanzack expecting to get an evenly-matched game. Many people have felt bad to be crushed by someone whose rating is in the 1300's. Anyone who hurts their own rating by playing a rated game against hanzack doesn't get a true indication of his own progress. It's not funny, it does hurt other people, and it needs to stop. |
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I would suggest making all ratings viewable in the game room table. Currently it has only 2 columns (Player, Rating). It should have BotR (only games against bots), WHR (only games against humans), Bots+humans (currently viewable in gameroom), WHRE. [Something like that. I am not sure how many diferent ratings are calculated in arimaa.com, so I might have missed a few.]
The people feeling bad when crushed by 13xx (i mean hanzack) is gameroom's problem in failing to provide the detailed info in one place. As hanzack is rate-banned, all his ratings should be "----", except of WHRE and BotR (maybe). So that newcomer would see who is who in a glance.
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omar
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #22 on: Feb 3rd, 2012, 5:40pm » |
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Yes, it's not good that he is playing new players and they get thrashed by a player who appears to be weak from his ratings. In a immature way it is kind of funny  Hanzack is a pretty young guy; maybe he gets a kick out of doing these kind of things. Maybe I can persuade him to coach new players rather than deceiving them.
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Eltripas
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #23 on: Feb 3rd, 2012, 9:06pm » |
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I agree with Boo but if that is difficult thing to do maybe setting his rating to a invariable number like 2300 could help to solve the problem.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #24 on: Feb 3rd, 2012, 9:16pm » |
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on Feb 3rd, 2012, 5:40pm, omar wrote:| Maybe I can persuade him to coach new players rather than deceiving them. |
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Thank you for doing, or at least trying to do something about it rather than ignoring the problem. I hope your persuasive powers carry the day! If not, Ivan's suggestion of a rating of 2300 (or whatever seems appropriate post World-Championship tournament) plus an RU of 0 seems like a mild remedy.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2012, 10:17pm by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: hanzack's sandbagged games
« Reply #25 on: Feb 6th, 2012, 10:16pm » |
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From chatroom, about hanzack:
Quote:2012-02-05 14:55:14 omar no, that was just a chat to ask him to help the new players rather than deceive them.
2012-02-05 14:55:40 omar he agreed to do that
2012-02-05 14:56:22 omar he seems to be a very nice guy
2012-02-05 14:56:52 omar at least if you talk to him nicely. |
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Thanks for reaching out to hanzack, Omar. I'm glad you had a friendly conversation, and glad that hanzack agreed to help new players instead of deceiving them. But I wonder if you two were on the same wavelength about what "deceive" means, given that hanzack, in his very next game, resigned on purpose in a won position:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=214414&s=w
I don't understand what purpose such a resignation can have other than deception, or at least to prevent his rating from reflecting his true ability. Did hanzack offer an explanation for his behavior? In the chat room when people ask why he has resigned in a won position, he says, "My hand slipped." Perhaps his true feelings are too difficult to express in a language foreign to him. Perhaps over the course of multiple conversations it would be possible to understand his motives and/or persuade him to have a genuine rating instead of a fake one.
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