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   Author  Topic: Move 2  (Read 6653 times)
Fritzlein
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #45 on: Apr 23rd, 2007, 7:14am »
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on Apr 23rd, 2007, 6:40am, arimaa_master wrote:
Hey Karl, I was first who suggested this 4b see:

I beg your pardon; you did think of it first.  I apologize that I didn't see your suggestion, and that I didn't respond to your counter-move for Gold.  After
 
2w Ee2n Ee3n Ee4n Hg2n
2b ed7s ed6s ed5s hg7s
3w Hg3n Hg4n Hg5e Hh5n
3b rh7w ed4s Md2e ed3s
4w Me2n De1n Rd1e Hb2n
4b ed2n Me3n ed3e hb7s
5w Me4e Ee5s Cc2e Db1n
 
Silver might indeed gain the initiative with
 
5b me7s me6e hg6s mf6e
 
Each side has an exposed horse, but Gold's horse is in worse shape.
 
Again, my apologies for presenting your idea for 4b as if it were original with me.
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #46 on: Apr 23rd, 2007, 9:01am »
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on Apr 23rd, 2007, 7:14am, Fritzlein wrote:

I beg your pardon; you did think of it first.  I apologize that I didn't see your suggestion, and that I didn't respond to your counter-move for Gold.  After
 
2w Ee2n Ee3n Ee4n Hg2n
2b ed7s ed6s ed5s hg7s
3w Hg3n Hg4n Hg5e Hh5n
3b rh7w ed4s Md2e ed3s
4w Me2n De1n Rd1e Hb2n
4b ed2n Me3n ed3e hb7s
5w Me4e Ee5s Cc2e Db1n
 
Silver might indeed gain the initiative with
 
5b me7s me6e hg6s mf6e
 
Each side has an exposed horse, but Gold's horse is in worse shape.
 
Again, my apologies for presenting your idea for 4b as if it were original with me.

 
Apologies accepted (and explanation too Smiley)
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NIC1138
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #47 on: Apr 23rd, 2007, 9:36am »
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Have we found an answer to 3w Ee5e Ef5e Eg5w hg6s already?...
 
In my "browsing" I think we can fall into a horse hostage, but it might be a good price...
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #48 on: Apr 24th, 2007, 6:34am »
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on Apr 23rd, 2007, 9:36am, NIC1138 wrote:
Have we found an answer to 3w Ee5e Ef5e Eg5w hg6s already?...
 
In my "browsing" I think we can fall into a horse hostage, but it might be a good price...

 
Yes, we found the answer (and Karl found and wrote the answer - at least if we are talking about it from  2b ed7s ed6s ed5s hg7s perspective Smiley).
 
See Karl's comment:  
 
on Apr 20th, 2007, 2:28pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Incidentally, let me give my justification of 2b ed7s ed6s ed5s hg7s, rather than just poking at other moves.  I suggest the move as a defense against 3w Ee5e Ef5e Eg5w hg6s.  If our elephant is on d4, we can play 3w ed4e ee4e ef4e hg5n, and Gold has lost the advantage of the opening move.  Therefore 2b ed7s ed6s ed5s hg7s prevents 3w Ee5e Ef5e Eg5w hg6s.
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2007, 6:35am by arimaa_master » IP Logged
NIC1138
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #49 on: Apr 24th, 2007, 10:53am »
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Right then.  And I'm still waiting for comments on my maneuver moving the camel to c6 after that possible camel flip, should we play the phant to e4...
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IdahoEv
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #50 on: Apr 24th, 2007, 5:26pm »
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Would it be too much to ask someone to write a summary of the suggested moves and the basic reasoning behind each one?  
 
I'm having a ludicrously busy week with work.   Good problem to have as a freelancer, but it means there's no hope of me getting through this thread to make a truly informed decision about the moves.   But I'm interested and want to contribute as much as I can.
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99of9
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #51 on: Apr 24th, 2007, 8:36pm »
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on Apr 20th, 2007, 2:28pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Other moves such as
2b ed7s ed6s hg7s hb7s (somewhat common in the postal tournament)
2b ed7s ed6s hg7s dd8s (99of9)
2b ed7s hg7s df7e me7e (seanick)
 
all permit 3w Ee5e Ef5e Eg5w hg6s
 
I can hear the collective cries of, "So what?"  Who cares if he pulls our horse?  Well, in my (rapidly-shrinking) world of defensive play, this horse hostage is one that gives a slight advantage to the hostage-taker.  I don't want chessandgo to drag our horse home to frame it and/or pass it off to his camel.

 
I've probably delayed too long to have any real effect here, but in answer to chessandgo dragging our horse, my move would permit:
3b ed5s ed4s ed3e Md2n
which starts to give us the initiative, with an attack on camel/rabbit, makes passing the horse to the camel difficult, and moves the action over to his side of the board.
 
Of course we can still play something like this in Fritz's plan... but his is still open to that attack on our second-back line that I was worried about earlier.
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2007, 8:39pm by 99of9 » IP Logged
99of9
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #52 on: Apr 24th, 2007, 9:20pm »
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on Apr 24th, 2007, 5:26pm, IdahoEv wrote:
Would it be too much to ask someone to write a summary of the suggested moves and the basic reasoning behind each one?  

 
I'll have a go, but I can't promise to do justice to any of the proposals...
 
ed7s ed6s ed5s hg7s
Defends g6 with the horse against an EH attack.  Then advances our elephant as far as possible (3 steps).  This means that if he drags our horse out, we can get our elephant across to bring our horse to safety against all dragging (the only option which fully achieves this).
 
ed7s ed6s hg7s dd8s  
Defends g6 with the horse against an EH attack.  Defends d7 and e7 against his E coming into the 7th rank and causing havoc with our camel or rabbits. Then advances our elephant as far as possible (2 steps - see below for why 2 might actually be optimal).
 
ed7s ed6s hg7s hb7s
Defends g6 with the horse against an EH attack.  Specifically designed to frustrate chessandgo's common 2nd move in this kind of position: 3w Ee5n Ee6w Hb2n Db1n, where he starts to threaten stuff near our c trap.  Our move deliberately only advances our elephant 2 steps, so that it is in a good defensive position.  One final step is then free to push our other horse into the useful b6 outpost.  Our camel finishes less cluttered than the previous suggestion.
 
ed7s hg7s df7e me7e
Defends g6 with the horse against an EH attack.  Support is sent across so that the horse can not be dragged as easily, and if it is, it will probably be dragged up the h-file, which means the elephant is further decentralized.  Finally, our elephant is sent forward as far as possible (1 step).  This move is less common, so it may take us out of known territory earlier (e.g. unwittingly prevents Jean's elephant moving to d6 since our elephant is there).  A fairly defensive move.
 
ed7s ed6s ed5s ed4e
Unlike the previous suggestions, this proposal is designed to invite an EH attack!  The sting in its tail is the ability of our elephant to safely get back onto the f6 trap in the event of EH, which allows us to threaten a horse frame.  Some analysis shows that our camel may be endangered in the process.  Our elephant also ends up a little decentralized if chessandgo attacks the c6 trap instead.
 
ed7s ed6s ed5s ed4s
CHARGE!!!  Although this permits an EH takeover on our f6 trap, that would initiate a bloody series of trades.  We start by killing a cat, he kills dog, we kill horse, he kills camel...  Seanick thinks chessandgo will be averse to such a bloody trade.  If chessandgo plays something defensive, we would have our elephant in a very good position.  Losing md(r?) for HC if he does attack makes it a very risky proposition for us.
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2007, 9:25pm by 99of9 » IP Logged
NIC1138
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #53 on: Apr 24th, 2007, 11:44pm »
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I advocated for the two last moves... Both lead to complicated "chains of events"!... The first one didn't seem so great tough, we couldn't find a nice way to save the camel.  I still haven't heard comments on the move taking it to c6 (safely)
 
For the last one, the series of bloody slaughterings ends up wasting our camel, but our phant can grab his camel in a somewhat good situation... But perhaps it's not that great really. I tought the 2000+ players would pick up these situations and find out great ways out, but it seems that the reason they are 2000+ is that they never actually reach those situations! Grin
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2007, 11:44pm by NIC1138 » IP Logged
IdahoEv
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #54 on: Apr 25th, 2007, 12:30am »
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much appreciated Toby, that's exactly what I was looking for!
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NIC1138
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #55 on: Apr 25th, 2007, 8:08am »
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Are we going to vote for a taunt for Ron to enter in the chatbox? Here is my suggested ballot:
 
(game related)
a_ HAHA!! Your puny strategies make me LAUGH!
b_ I hope you are already thinking about after move 8w, when we will force you to suicide your elephant...
(classical)
c_ You say your rabbits will come down so numerous that they will block the sun? Well, better then. We will fight at shade!
(patriotic)
d_ Les Français sont grenouille. Chardonnay a le goût de la pisse. Sartre et Descartes étaient laids. De Gaulle était un PD.
(family)
e_ Tell your mother you are not coming home.
f_ We have two things in common: your woman, and knowing your next move.
 
They say the last two worked for Materazzi against Zidane in that last world cup!... Grin
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #56 on: Apr 25th, 2007, 8:42am »
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on Apr 24th, 2007, 10:53am, NIC1138 wrote:
And I'm still waiting for comments on my maneuver moving the camel to c6 after that possible camel flip, should we play the phant to e4...

You can see the answer in move 4w of game 50444, chessandgo vs. woh.  If we just move our camel away, leaving his horse unfrozen, then his horse can pull our flank rabbit while retreating.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #57 on: Apr 25th, 2007, 11:56am »
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I've already told him that when he was born the doctor slapped his mother.  He has not replied to this.
 
I'm looking for similarly over-the-top taunts that can't reasonably be taken personally and we can all enjoy.
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NIC1138
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #58 on: Apr 25th, 2007, 12:33pm »
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We can send one he is already expecting! "Is it true that you are so ugly that your wife mistook you for a camel in your honeymoon in Tunisia??"  Wink
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 2
« Reply #59 on: Apr 25th, 2007, 9:38pm »
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on Apr 24th, 2007, 9:20pm, 99of9 wrote:
ed7s ed6s hg7s dd8s  
Defends g6 with the horse against an EH attack.  Defends d7 and e7 against his E coming into the 7th rank and causing havoc with our camel or rabbits. Then advances our elephant as far as possible (2 steps - see below for why 2 might actually be optimal).

Well, well, 99of9's suggestion is the move chessandgo chose for himself against PMertens in game 50486.  Maybe this is an indication that if we play our elephant forward three, chessandgo will indeed put his elephant on d7, given that he took pains to keep PMertens' elephant out of d7.
« Last Edit: Apr 25th, 2007, 9:39pm by Fritzlein » IP Logged

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