Author |
Topic: Move 20 (Read 5304 times) |
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #15 on: Dec 21st, 2007, 8:19am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Dec 21st, 2007, 2:32am, 99of9 wrote:Fritz, you have the Eb5, and Ra2 Cb2 wrong. |
| Oopsies. Corrected, although no one will look at mine now that The Jeh's is up.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
mdk
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2309
Gender:
Posts: 108
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #16 on: Jan 1st, 2008, 2:40pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I happened to look at the board again today and was wondering how we respond to 20w Da43 Rb2w Ha3n Db4e
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
RonWeasley
Forum Moderator Forum Guru
Harry's friend (Arimaa player #441)
Gender:
Posts: 882
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #17 on: Jan 2nd, 2008, 7:16am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 1st, 2008, 2:40pm, mdk wrote:I happened to look at the board again today and was wondering how we respond to 20w Da43 Rb2w Ha3n Db4e |
| 20b Me3n ed3e rc3e dd7s seems to set up a camel trade with silver getting something extra, maybe a D for a r.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #18 on: Jan 3rd, 2008, 2:21pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Chessandgo played 20w Ec5w Ra1n De1n De2w. We can't push his horse back any more. We can't pull his dog. We therefore can't get that kind of compensation for giving up our camel as a hostage. My first thought is that we either have to get our camel out of there while we still have a chance to avoid giving it up hostage, or we have to push his camel and play for a camel trade.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
mdk
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2309
Gender:
Posts: 108
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #19 on: Jan 3rd, 2008, 3:19pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Ok so a few of ideas... 20b mc3n rc3w mb4e mc4e 20b mc3n rc3w mb4e mc4n 20b Me3n ed3e rc3e dd7s 20b Me3n ed3e rc3e cc7w hopefully other people have some ideas as well. i definitely think we will need to play out some lines to decide the best move
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Soter
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2381
Gender:
Posts: 138
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #20 on: Jan 3rd, 2008, 3:32pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Quote:My first thought is that we either have to get our camel out of there while we still have a chance to avoid giving it up hostage, or we have to push his camel and play for a camel trade.[ |
| Good ideas - but don't forget that Silver cat is now in danger. I'll try to help a bit later - some heavy blood-spilling looms on the horizon.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #21 on: Jan 3rd, 2008, 3:36pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Also 20b mb3n rc3w mb4e mc4s 20b mb3n rc3w mb4e dd7s and maybe 20b mb3n rb2n xxxx xxxx ??
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Janzert
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #247
Gender:
Posts: 1016
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #22 on: Jan 3rd, 2008, 3:45pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 3rd, 2008, 3:36pm, Fritzlein wrote:Also 20b mb3n rc3w mb4e mc4s |
| I had just been looking at this and thought it looked fun. So I'll be interested to see what others come with on it. Janzert
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
The_Jeh
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #634
Gender:
Posts: 460
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #23 on: Jan 3rd, 2008, 4:30pm » |
Quote Modify
|
20b +-----------------+ 8| r r r . . r r r | 7| . . c d c d r . | 6| . . x . . x h . | 5| h E . . . . . R | 4| D . . . . . . . | 3| H m r e M x H . | 2| R R C D . C . . | 1| . R R . . R R R | +-----------------+ a b c d e f g h This is just for my convenience. Next week I'll be back on high-speed.
|
« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2008, 4:32pm by The_Jeh » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
UruramTururam
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2537
Gender:
Posts: 319
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #24 on: Jan 3rd, 2008, 5:56pm » |
Quote Modify
|
The hostage threat is present but I think there's quite a chance to overcome it with swarming... For now I propose: 20b: dd7s hg6e hh6w Rh5n
|
|
IP Logged |
Caffa et bucella per attactionem corporum venit ad stomachum meum. BGG Arimaa badges - get your own one!
|
|
|
RonWeasley
Forum Moderator Forum Guru
Harry's friend (Arimaa player #441)
Gender:
Posts: 882
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #25 on: Jan 4th, 2008, 8:15am » |
Quote Modify
|
Here's another swarming idea: 20b dd7s dd6s dd5s rg8s This looks like it gives the silver e some freedom and makes work for the gold E. That puts the D pull back in play and might let silver win the camel capture race.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #26 on: Jan 4th, 2008, 3:21pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 3rd, 2008, 3:19pm, mdk wrote:20b Me3n ed3e rc3e dd7s 20b Me3n ed3e rc3e cc7w |
| After some analysis, pushing his camel looks poor for us. Chessandgo threatens to get a camel and a rabbit for a camel. 20b Me3n ed3e rc3e dd7s 21w Eb5s rd3w Dd2n Rg1n 21b Me4n ee3n Me5n ee4n 22w Eb4e mb3n rc3x mb4s Ec4w (+=) Swarming buys us time, but not enough time to get the camel for something less 20b Me3n ed3e rc3e dd7s 21w Eb5s rd3w Dd2n Rg1n 21b dd6s dd5w dc5s rb8s 22w Eb4n mb3n Ha3e Ra2n 22b Me4n ee3n Me5n ee4n 23w Eb5e Ec5w dc4n rc3x Rh1n (+=) This doesn't mean that swarming is out; it means that if we are going to swarm, we should do so first, and look for an opportunity to push the camel after our swarm has gotten well underway. What is out in my book (until someone gives a more promising line) is an immediate camel push.
|
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2008, 3:22pm by Fritzlein » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
jdb
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #214
Gender:
Posts: 682
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #27 on: Jan 4th, 2008, 6:31pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jan 4th, 2008, 3:21pm, Fritzlein wrote: After some analysis, pushing his camel looks poor for us. Chessandgo threatens to get a camel and a rabbit for a camel. 20b Me3n ed3e rc3e dd7s 21w Eb5s rd3w Dd2n Rg1n 21b Me4n ee3n Me5n ee4n 22w Eb4e mb3n rc3x mb4s Ec4w (+=) |
| Playing on a bit farther: 22b Me6e Mf6x ee5n ha5n Da4n 23w mb3e mc3x Eb4s Eb3n Eb4n 23b ha6n Da5n ha7e Da6n The idea being to take the dog hostage after an exchange of camels. If gold instead plays 21w rd3n Dd2n Eb5s Rg1n Does this work? 21b Me4n ee3n rd4w xxxx After looking some more, 20b Me3n ed3e rc3e rb8s 21w Eb5s rd3w Dd2n Rg1n 21b ha5n Da4n ha6e Da5n And alot of pieces leave the board, but it looks like silver comes out ahead. But it is really complicated and I likely missed something.
|
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2008, 6:45pm by jdb » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #28 on: Jan 4th, 2008, 8:02pm » |
Quote Modify
|
A bit of analysis increases my interest in 20b mb3n rc3w mb4e mc4s. At the most basic level, it threatens to win a cat,. A more subtle feature of the move is that for chessandgo to retake b3, he can't push our rabbit back into c3. He would have to push our rabbit away from the c3 trap, and onto a better square for our rabbit. This raises the possibility that he would defend c3 with his elephant on c4, rather than retaking b3, which leaves our horse free to harrass his dog. A final subtle point is that if both his horse advance in the west, our rabbit can often take up an ideal spot on a3, allowing our camel the possibility to escape via the b-file and crash the party around f6. But first the least subtle line. What if he takes our cat? It looks like we have more stuff to capture faster, so his only hope is a goal race which we win: 20b mb3n rc3w mb4e mc4s 21w Eb5n Eb6n cc7s cc6x Eb7e 21b mc3n Cc2n Cc3x mc4s mc3s 22w rb3e Ha3e Cf2w Rf1w 22b Dd2s mc2e rc3s dd7n 23w Ra2n Da4e Db4e Ra3n 23b ha5e hb5s Dc4e hb4e 24w Ra4n Ra5n Ra6n Rg1w 24b hc4w ed3w ec3n Hb3e Hc3x 25w Ec7w rc8s rc7s rc6x Eb7e 25b md2n ec4n dd8w hb4s (-+) It's extremely sharp, and worth further examination, but let's say he can't afford to enter the bloodletting line, and tries to come home with his elephant. 20b mb3n rc3w mb4e mc4s 21w Eb5e Ec5s rb3n Ha3e 21b ha5e Da4n Da5n hb5w 22w rb4w Hb3n Hb4n Hb5n 22b mc3w mb3n mb4n dd7s (=+) That didn't work so well. If he comes home with his elephant, his dog is hung out to dry, so maybe he needs to activate his camel? 20b mb3n rc3w mb4e mc4s 21w Eb5e Ec5s Cf2w Me3n 21b ha5e Da4n Da5n hb5w (but no, the camel gets in trouble for defending: 22w Me4n Me5w Md5w Mc5w 22b ed3n ed4n ed5w mc3e -+) 22w Ha3n Ha4e Hb4n Hb5n 22b rb3w mc3w dd7s ha5s (now chessandgo's misplaced second rank rabbits prevent him from taking our camel hostage) 23w Me4n Me5w dd6e Md5n 23b mb3n mb4n Hb6n mb5n (-+) So perhaps the answer for Gold is not in camel activation, but in defending c3 with small pieces to keep the gold elephant free. 20b mb3n rc3w mb4e mc4s 21w rb3n Ha3e Ra2n Cf2w 21b mc3n Cc2n mc4n Cc3n This last line is unclear, but it might favor us if nothing of ours can be effectively threatened except our advanced rabbit (now no longer framed) while gold has several small pieces and rabbits that are targets for us. So far I like the move 20b mb3n rc3w mb4e mc4s pretty well for us.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
RonWeasley
Forum Moderator Forum Guru
Harry's friend (Arimaa player #441)
Gender:
Posts: 882
|
|
Re: Move 20
« Reply #29 on: Jan 8th, 2008, 7:18am » |
Quote Modify
|
Looks like the WC has got our attention. Let's plan on voting Wednesday unless some more discussion pops up. Fritzlein's favored move looks good to me. I couldn't find any devistating counters to it and it looks safer than the alternatives.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
|