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Topic: Arimaa at Boardspace.net (Read 4591 times) |
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ddyer
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Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« on: Nov 24th, 2010, 3:50pm » |
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I've got Arimaa about ready for Boardspace.net, but I'd like to enlist a few experienced players to check for rules correctness and make suggestions for my weak robot.
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qswanger
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #1 on: Nov 24th, 2010, 5:35pm » |
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Holy Cow! This is awesome news. Boardspace is an EXCELLENT gaming site. Count me in!
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| « Last Edit: Nov 24th, 2010, 5:36pm by qswanger » |
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ddyer
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #2 on: Nov 24th, 2010, 11:05pm » |
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It's there. Let me know what you find.
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clojure
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Arimaa player #5004
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #3 on: Nov 24th, 2010, 11:45pm » |
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Hi, I tried to put pieces from the right most stack for the initial setup but before I got to the end of the stack, there was some error, which prevented me to continue.
Here are the messages.
Code:
Lobby: Welcome to BoardSpace client, version 3.1
Error: in game main loop java.lang.Error: rabbit count matches{LastParsed:
Reset}java.lang.Error: rabbit count matches
Error: in game main loop java.lang.Error: rabbit count matches last message was 211
trackMouse on 84 66 -3 {LastParsed: Pick B 6 13}java.lang.Error: rabbit count
matches
Error: in game main loop java.lang.Error: rabbit count matches last message was 211
trackMouse on 1010999 21000 13 {LastParsed: Dropb B 2}java.lang.Error: rabbit
count matches
Error: in game main loop java.lang.Error: rabbit count matches{LastParsed: Pick B 6
13}java.lang.Error: rabbit count matches
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ddyer
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #4 on: Nov 25th, 2010, 11:09am » |
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Thanks for the rapid feedback - this is fixed now.
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omar
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #5 on: Nov 25th, 2010, 10:25pm » |
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Thanks for adding Arimaa to Boardspace.net. I tried it out and it looks pretty good. I didn't have time to finish the game since the bot was taking a while to move. On the setup move the bot was thinking after placing each piece. You might want to use some predefined setups on the first move to speed it up. I didn't run into any errors.
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ddyer
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #6 on: Nov 25th, 2010, 11:29pm » |
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The lookahead is essentially meaningless in the initial setup
phase, so trimming it back ought to be fine. I also plan to
add a "place the rabbits" button for humans to use after
the first 8.
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omar
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #7 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 8:43am » |
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I was able to play test it out more today. I noticed that the bot made a move which did not change the board position. It was move 29 and 31 in the game. It moved the elephant, but brought it back to the square it was originally on.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #8 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 8:31pm » |
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on Dec 9th, 2010, 8:43am, omar wrote:| I was able to play test it out more today. I noticed that the bot made a move which did not change the board position. It was move 29 and 31 in the game. It moved the elephant, but brought it back to the square it was originally on. |
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Which is significant since that is an illegal move...
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ddyer
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #9 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 9:34pm » |
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on Dec 9th, 2010, 8:31pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Which is significant since that is an illegal move... |
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re: AA-Dumbot-omar-2010-12-09-1412
(a) it's not an illegal move to cause 3 repetitions,
it's a LOSING move. There is a difference.
(b) In the case in point, the elephant walks in a circle,
but this is not yet even one repetition. After the gold
elephant walks in a circle, silver has a new position
he has never before confronted.
-- not to claim perfection, if the applet sees three repetitions, it declares a draw rather than a loss.
I'll fix that.
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Janzert
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #10 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 10:37pm » |
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Hmm, looking up the rule I guess it is rather ambiguous. I think this is the relevant sentence in the rules:
Quote:| A player can pass some of the steps, but at least one step must be taken on each turn to change the game position. |
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I guess this can be taken to mean that since the elephant circled around, it had changed the game position during the turn. I believe Omar's intent and the arimaa community interpretation has always been that the game position has to be changed at the end of the turn from what it started as. Even just swapping the position of say two dogs has been clarified as illegal in the past.
Janzert
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Fritzlein
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #11 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 11:48pm » |
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When I learned Arimaa, I was also confused by the "at least one step must be taken" rule, which is (as you point out) not completely clarified by adding "to change the position". When the rules state that a player is required to change the position, that requirement is made unclear by expressing it in terms of having to take at least one step. The rule as stated invites the misinterpretation that Dave just made.
It might be better to say, "A player may not pass his turn or make a move equivalent to passing." Then the need to take at least one step is an obvious corollary instead of a misleading introduction. The full sentence might read, "A player may pass some of the steps, but may not pass the whole turn or make a move equivalent to passing." Does this strike folks as being less open to misinterpretation?
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| « Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2010, 1:15am by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #12 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 11:51pm » |
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on Dec 9th, 2010, 9:34pm, ddyer wrote:| (a) it's not an illegal move to cause 3 repetitions, it's a LOSING move. There is a difference. |
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There is indeed a difference. Actually, this rule has been changed. It used to be a losing move to create a third repetition, but now it is an illegal move instead. Where are the rules that you are referencing that call it a losing move? We need to bring those rules up to date. (The Arimaa rules on Wikipedia were updated with this change on July 5, 2008)
on Dec 9th, 2010, 9:34pm, ddyer wrote:(b) In the case in point, the elephant walks in a circle,
but this is not yet even one repetition. After the gold
elephant walks in a circle, silver has a new position
he has never before confronted. |
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That's correct, it is not even yet one repetition, but the "no passing" rule is in addition to the "no three-fold repetition" rule.
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| « Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2010, 11:57pm by Fritzlein » |
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ddyer
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #13 on: Dec 10th, 2010, 12:24am » |
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I haven't seen the "equivalent to passing" language anywhere official - I'll wait for it to appear.
I propose that no matter what rule is in effect, it will
be possible to construct board positions where reasonable players will disagree if the result is "fair" or not.
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free online abstract strategy games
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: Arimaa at Boardspace.net
« Reply #14 on: Dec 10th, 2010, 1:20am » |
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on Dec 10th, 2010, 12:24am, ddyer wrote:| I propose that no matter what rule is in effect, it will be possible to construct board positions where reasonable players will disagree if the result is "fair" or not. |
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Certainly. I don't like the official rules myself. It is as it is because that's how Omar decided it should be, and it turns out I can live with it. :)
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