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Topic: 2008 Arimaa Challenge (Read 2161 times) |
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RonWeasley
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2008 Arimaa Challenge
« on: Mar 13th, 2008, 7:36pm » |
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As match director, I am pleased to announce the bot challengers and human defenders for the 2008 Arimaa Challenge.
First, 2008 champion bot_Bomb2005CC and newcomer bot_sharp will be made available for non-defender humans to play. Then the bot with the best record in these games will earn the right to challenge the selected defenders, each to a best-of-three game match.
This year the defenders are 2007 World Champion Jean Daligault (chessandgo), Greg Magne (Adanac), and Mark Mistretta (mistre). The alternate is Omar Syed (omar). Thank you for defending the honor of all humanity!
Please visit the Arimaa Challenge page for complete match rules. Good luck to the challengers and to the defenders!
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| « Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2008, 6:35am by RonWeasley » |
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omar
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Arimaa player #2
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #1 on: Mar 15th, 2008, 1:40am » |
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Open season on the two best bots is about to begin.
The result of how the bots do against humans will
determine which bot goes on to play in the challenge
match. The bots will be available to play for two weeks beginning March 16.
Use this link to play against the bots.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/wcc/2008/playBestBots.cgi
The human defenders and the bot developers are not allowed to play these bots during this time.
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #2 on: Mar 15th, 2008, 6:20pm » |
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Omar and Ron (and everyone), how would you feel if I played the qualifying games at handicap? I expect that if I play standard games, I will win two against sharp and win two against Bomb. This provides no information in distinguishing which bot is more deserving of being in the finals. However, if I were to play all four of the games at a camel handicap, I would probably be as likely to lose each game as to win. This might actually give some differentiation between the two bots.
I can see a case against playing handicap games. Even if a handicap is "fair" in that I use the same handicap against each bot, the information it provides is not exactly what we want to know. We aren't interested in which bot is best against humans with an extra camel, we are interested in which bot is best against humans at real games.
Which do we want to have: no useful information whatsoever, or some information that isn't exactly what we wanted to know?
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| « Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2008, 6:21pm by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #3 on: Mar 15th, 2008, 7:12pm » |
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Hi, Omar. The challenge bots are starting at the wrong time control. I just clicked on the Play Bots link and got a game against Bomb at 60s/120s/75/0/4h/4m. Meanwhile aaaa is playing sharp at 2/2/100/2/0. We need that to be fixed, and need a ruling as to whether sharp vs. aaaa counts in the standings.
[EDIT]
Also the pairing code complained when aaaa tried to play in unrated mode, so he turned unrated mode off and tried again, but the game was unrated anyway!
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| « Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2008, 7:25pm by Fritzlein » |
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arimaa_master
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #4 on: Mar 16th, 2008, 5:22am » |
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on Mar 15th, 2008, 6:20pm, Fritzlein wrote:Omar and Ron (and everyone), how would you feel if I played the qualifying games at handicap? I expect that if I play standard games, I will win two against sharp and win two against Bomb. This provides no information in distinguishing which bot is more deserving of being in the finals. However, if I were to play all four of the games at a camel handicap, I would probably be as likely to lose each game as to win. This might actually give some differentiation between the two bots.
I can see a case against playing handicap games. Even if a handicap is "fair" in that I use the same handicap against each bot, the information it provides is not exactly what we want to know. We aren't interested in which bot is best against humans with an extra camel, we are interested in which bot is best against humans at real games.
Which do we want to have: no useful information whatsoever, or some information that isn't exactly what we wanted to know? |
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Yeah, I was thinking about the same (but probably giving only a cat handicap myself  ).
Generally I would like to see such handicap games, it will be at least very interesting. (And why only camel handicap? I think you can give camel + cat handicap without much problems too ).
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omar
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #5 on: Mar 16th, 2008, 8:46am » |
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on Mar 15th, 2008, 7:12pm, Fritzlein wrote:Hi, Omar. The challenge bots are starting at the wrong time control. I just clicked on the Play Bots link and got a game against Bomb at 60s/120s/75/0/4h/4m. Meanwhile aaaa is playing sharp at 2/2/100/2/0. We need that to be fixed, and need a ruling as to whether sharp vs. aaaa counts in the standings.
[EDIT]
Also the pairing code complained when aaaa tried to play in unrated mode, so he turned unrated mode off and tried again, but the game was unrated anyway! |
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Oops, the bot config files had the wrong settings. I've fixed it now. Since the games were not rated, they are not picked up by the script which keeps score:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/wcc/2008/showBestBot.cgi
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #6 on: Mar 16th, 2008, 11:55am » |
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on Mar 16th, 2008, 8:46am, omar wrote:| http://arimaa.com/arimaa/wcc/2008/showBestBot.cgi |
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It looks like this link is working, now, although it excludes the two unrated games.
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RonWeasley
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #7 on: Mar 16th, 2008, 1:13pm » |
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After some discussion with several players, I'm going to rule that the games played under the wrong time control do not count as qualified games, since the rules specify conditions for the time control. Thank you to those who are playing qualified games and apologies to those whose games have been disqualified.
TD
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aaaa
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #8 on: Mar 16th, 2008, 2:39pm » |
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I am currently unable to play a qualifier (getting a "Bot Not Started" page), probably because bot_Bomb2005CC is already in a game and the system doesn't allow me to play against bot_sharp again before I've equalized with Bomb. Can this restriction be lifted such that it merely prefers an equalizing game?
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omar
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Arimaa player #2
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #9 on: Mar 17th, 2008, 12:23pm » |
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When there is no preference for which bot you need to play, the script just picks one at random and tries to start it on a server that i not already busy. Thus it is possible to have bomb or sharp running twice, one on each server. If both servers are busy, it will report it and not try to start the bot.
In this case it seems like it tried to start the bot, but it did not start. Im not sure what caused the bot to not start this time, but if it continues please let me know.
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99of9
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #10 on: Mar 17th, 2008, 4:45pm » |
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Don't resignations count as a win for the bot?
Retrovirus naturally resigned when he lost his elephant, but on the score page, it's not showing up as a win for the bot.
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Janzert
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #11 on: Mar 17th, 2008, 4:49pm » |
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I believe the corresponding game with the other bot has to be played before the score is counted. At least I thought I saw that happen with aaaa's game too.
Janzert
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aaaa
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #12 on: Mar 17th, 2008, 4:50pm » |
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Sure it does. Shift-reload the page.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #13 on: Mar 17th, 2008, 7:40pm » |
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on Mar 16th, 2008, 2:39pm, aaaa wrote:| I am currently unable to play a qualifier (getting a "Bot Not Started" page), probably because bot_Bomb2005CC is already in a game and the system doesn't allow me to play against bot_sharp again before I've equalized with Bomb. |
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Now I'm getting the same error, even though only The_Jeh is playing Bomb, so the other server should be free.
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mistre
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Re: 2008 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #14 on: Mar 18th, 2008, 8:32am » |
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on Mar 17th, 2008, 4:45pm, 99of9 wrote:Don't resignations count as a win for the bot?
Retrovirus naturally resigned when he lost his elephant, but on the score page, it's not showing up as a win for the bot. |
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It appears that resignations do not count as a win for the bot.
After thinking that Bomb2005CC was going to walk away this, ChrisB tightened things up by beating Bomb and losing to Sharp.
Go Sharp!
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