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Topic: Commentary audio (Read 9854 times) |
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Eltripas
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #15 on: Jan 26th, 2010, 5:54pm » |
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on Jan 24th, 2010, 7:32pm, omar wrote:| I'm not sure if TimeSpeak cuts out the silent parts. You might want to try using the audio file I made with the digital recorder; I know that was running continuously. |
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Sorry for the late answer here, already answered Janzert in the forum, teamspeak skips the silent parts, but only the silent parts where no microphone is active, so if you leave a microphone is open all the time but in silence teamspeak shouldn't skip those parts, just a suggestion but I see that other methods (like the one Janzert used) may be more effective, when I did my recording I didn't made them to be put on videos at least not in videos in sync with the real game time sorry for not telling this before.
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Janzert
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #16 on: Jan 26th, 2010, 5:57pm » |
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on Jan 26th, 2010, 3:51pm, 99of9 wrote:| It looks like the audio was a little behind the video, because Fritz seemed to take a while to notice each move, but other than that, it was flawless. |
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The video and audio for that game were actually recorded together "live". As you say though I also noticed it during the game that judging by Fritzlein's commentary his client seemed to lag a few seconds behind mine. At first I thought maybe it was because of the extra lag between the teamspeak server and our clients. But when I checked he only had about 20ms and I had around 50ms lag on teamspeak so that shouldn't have added any significant delay. I'm not sure what client Fritzlein was using but I did happen to have the development javascript client up, not sure if that displays moves quicker or not. I guess that's all just to say I did notice it during the game as well but couldn't figure out where the delay might be coming from.
All in all though since we didn't decide to record until literally a minute or two before the game started, I was pretty pleased with how well it worked out. Fritzlein did a great job keeping up the commentary through the whole game without anyone to join in.
Janzert
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| « Last Edit: Jan 26th, 2010, 6:04pm by Janzert » |
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Nombril
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #17 on: Jan 26th, 2010, 7:07pm » |
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I noticed while listening (live) to some of the games that there was some delay between when I saw the steps on my screen compared to when I heard the steps on the commentators audio.
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chessandgo
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #18 on: Jan 27th, 2010, 6:16am » |
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Posted by: Fritzlein "You are too kind."
Karl, you could be a commentor for NBA games on ABC as far as I am concerned, I'm another huge fan of how you handle live commentaries 
Posted by: Janzert "Videos and postgame interviews from a couple round 3 games are now temporarily up on my site"
I haven't had the time to watch Janzert's videos, I hope I'll do it tonight, big thanks for doing this anyway!
Posted by: Fritzlein "It is a huge help to be able to hear myself"
Yeah, most definitely! Although I am pretty ashame when I hear my english accent. I'll try to concentrate on this if I find myself in the commentator seat again.
"I also noticed it during the game that judging by Fritzlein's commentary his client seemed to lag a few seconds behind mine"
I had the same impression when commenting with him the Tuks-Adanac game, he always seemed to aaah a couple seconds later than I'd expected about the current move.
"Chessandgo vs. Adanac needs a commentator, and most of North American will be fast asleep, and most of Europe will be at work. "
Sounds like I'm the only lazy european Seriously, I'm not sure whether you got my email Greg, I hoped we would find an easier time even though I'm away for the week-end, which sure is a problem for finding a good time 
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Fritzlein
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #19 on: Jan 27th, 2010, 6:57am » |
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on Jan 26th, 2010, 5:57pm, Janzert wrote:| The video and audio for that game were actually recorded together "live". As you say though I also noticed it during the game that judging by Fritzlein's commentary his client seemed to lag a few seconds behind mine. At first I thought maybe it was because of the extra lag between the teamspeak server and our clients. But when I checked he only had about 20ms and I had around 50ms lag on teamspeak so that shouldn't have added any significant delay. I'm not sure what client Fritzlein was using but I did happen to have the development javascript client up, not sure if that displays moves quicker or not. I guess that's all just to say I did notice it during the game as well but couldn't figure out where the delay might be coming from. |
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OK, I was wondering about the lag myself, which seemed to be about 2-3 seconds at the start of the game and grow to 8-14 seconds by the end of the game. I am now convinced that it was entirely due to my Arimaa client, and not due to Teamspeak or Internet lag or synchronization issues. The laptop on which I am commentating is ancient. Also I recall previous incidents where I and others noticed longer and longer times to display moves as the game progressed, something to do with the long movelist, which we resolved by switching versions of the client.
Unfortunately I don't recall what I switched from and what I switched to in order to resolve the display slowness problem. I am currently set to Flash V2 HTTP client. For my next commentary I will switch to Javascript. My only issue with the Javascript client in the past has been as a player when it doesn't send my move and/or doesn't register that my move has been sent. Perhaps when I am watching only and not playing, I will have no issues with the Javascript client, and it will display the moves with less lag.
Indeed, perhaps I should even switch to the Javascript experimental client, so as to be less likely to confuse the coordinates of the traps. If Janzert had no issues with it for capturing live video, why should I fear? I watched a bit of a live game just now, and it seemed I had only one or two seconds lag with it even by move forty.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #20 on: Jan 27th, 2010, 7:04am » |
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on Jan 27th, 2010, 6:16am, chessandgo wrote:| Karl, you could be a commentor for NBA games on ABC as far as I am concerned, I'm another huge fan of how you handle live commentaries |
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I truly appreciate the encouragement. It makes me eager to keep trying to improve.
Quote:| Although I am pretty ashame when I hear my english accent. |
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No worries. Your vocabulary and grammar are first-rate, and I never have trouble understanding you. The only effect of an accent like yours is to make the women swoon!
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Adanac
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #21 on: Jan 27th, 2010, 8:12am » |
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on Jan 27th, 2010, 6:16am, chessandgo wrote:| Seriously, I'm not sure whether you got my email Greg, I hoped we would find an easier time even though I'm away for the week-end, which sure is a problem for finding a good time |
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Jean, no I didn’t see your e-mail but I suspected you might be gone all weekend when our game got such a strange time slot. It’s no problem though, I’m going to try sleep early every night for the next 5 nights so that I get into the habit of waking up at 5:00. On the bright side, that will allow me to commentate on Tuks vs. 99of9 on Sunday, which is also 5:00 for me. I’m going to need to learn how to record the audio (Janzert recommended Audacity), unless someone wants to volunteer as a co-commentator & audio recorder.
on Jan 26th, 2010, 11:02am, Fritzlein wrote:| Thanks a ton for doing this, Janzert. It is a huge help to be able to hear myself. I didn't realize quite how many times I would confuse the names of players, or the two colors, or the names of the pieces, or the coordinates of the squares, etc. I have a lot to learn as a commentator. |
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Your voice is very smooth and you always have good insights to share. Seriously, I would have thought you had a decade of radio experience after listening to the games I’m the one who needs the practice! The second game went more smoothly, but there’s still a long list for improvement:
• Level sound volume for all commentators.
• Not repeating so many sentences due to a lost train of thought or because I might have said the wrong piece or square the first time.
• Lift my voice rather than allow it to trail off at the end of sentences.
• When a player makes a move mid-sentence I shouldn’t say “oh!” every time.
• Maybe pause 2 or 3 seconds for quiet analysis after each move rather than jumping straight into tactical analysis. I’d rather have the short silence followed by accurate analysis than fast & inaccurate.
• I’ve found that listening to just the audio file while replaying the game manually is difficult because it’s not always obvious which move is current being discussed. Audio/video mixing mostly solves the problem but I still like the idea of announcing each move with: move # played, which pieces moved to where (excluding setup move), amount of time used, amount of reserve remaining. I’m not sure if this is useful after the video is added to the file, but it can’t hurt.
• Trust my instincts more. In the Naveed-Chris game at one point I said something like “Will that give gold a goal in that scenario? One, two, unfreeze, three, four, um wait, five steps? No I guess not”. My first instinct was a very sure “no goal”, I should have just gone with that. I’m going to make mistakes, no doubt, but I’d rather have a smooth broadcast than lots of second-guessing.
• When a new thought pops into my head mid-sentence, I still have to finish the current sentence smoothly – no awkward pauses! In the Fritzlein-Chessandgo game at one point I suggested placing silver pieces on e5, e6 and f7 to prevent the gold elephant from pulling the d6 horse (to free the framed horse). That’s close to what Jean eventually played but unfortunately, in mid-sentence I noticed the gold dog could retreat to d3, allowing the framed c6 gold horse to be (temporarily) freed on Karl’s next move. That threw me off for a moment before I realized that Jean could undo with 4 steps and hold the frame thanks to the three-move-repetition rule. So I anticipated three moves that were actually played yet completely fumbled the communication because I was trying to unravel new ideas all at once. If I had just completed my first thought, then verbalized my 2nd & 3rd thoughts it would have sounded more coherent.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #22 on: Jan 27th, 2010, 9:51am » |
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I thought all the commentators were easy to understand and had useful things to say. I say don't worry too much about polished delivery. I found that beer helped me reduce the occurrence of dead air moments.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #23 on: Jan 27th, 2010, 2:23pm » |
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on Jan 27th, 2010, 9:51am, RonWeasley wrote:| I found that beer helped me reduce the occurrence of dead air moments. |
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Butterbeer, surely. This is a family show...
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omar
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #25 on: Jan 31st, 2010, 6:17am » |
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Posted the audio from the last two game with live commentary.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/videos/2010wc/
If noone is planning to do commentary on the chessandgo vs Adanac game I'll take a crack at it, but it would be nice if someone could join me.
Using the development JavaScript client for watching games might be better since it has the coordinates on the trap squares. If you ever need to reload the client just right click off the board and select 'Reload'.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #26 on: Jan 31st, 2010, 8:23am » |
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Thanks for posting the commentary, Omar. I was sad to miss the 99of9 vs Tuks game, but listening to it after the fact was the next best thing.
Is there any way to do something about the relative microphone volume? I had to choose between barely hearing you at all, or having my eardrums blown out by Adanac.
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Adanac
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #27 on: Jan 31st, 2010, 10:03am » |
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on Jan 31st, 2010, 8:23am, Fritzlein wrote:Thanks for posting the commentary, Omar. I was sad to miss the 99of9 vs Tuks game, but listening to it after the fact was the next best thing.
Is there any way to do something about the relative microphone volume? I had to choose between barely hearing you at all, or having my eardrums blown out by Adanac. |
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I'll try to adjust my volume before the game starts next time. I tried to find the microphone volume control during the game, but it was too much pressure mid-game and so I just went back to the commentary.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2010, 10:04am by Adanac » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #28 on: Jan 31st, 2010, 10:28am » |
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on Jan 26th, 2010, 2:49pm, Janzert wrote:I used BB Flashback Express. I did a search for screencasting software and this seemed to be the nicest thing available for free.
It does mean that you can't do much else with the computer while recording and at least when I recorded the game live Monday it seemed to prevent me from talking in teamspeak. So ideally it would be nice if someone came up with a second computer that wouldn't be used for anything else during the recording. Also when recording remember to turn off the screensaver. |
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Thanks for figuring out how to do this Janzert. Did you have to re-encode it after the fact to compress it, or was it compressing as you went along? If the latter, it isn't surprising that you couldn't do anything else with your computer while recording, since encoding is so CPU-intensive. Indeed, I'm sure my ancient laptop couldn't do it at all, and perhaps not my desktop either.
It's a real bummer not to be able to talk in TeamSpeak while recording in BB Flashback, because if one person could do it all we would surely have a lot more of our audio commentary having accompanying video by now. Does it seem to be memory or CPU that is the bottleneck? Perhaps we won't get around it any way except having someone who isn't talking dedicate a computer to the recording.
Anyway, thanks for moving us forward on the technical discovery process.
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Janzert
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Re: Commentary audio
« Reply #29 on: Jan 31st, 2010, 2:54pm » |
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The video still had to be encoded to the flash format after recording. It still seems to require a fair bit of resources but not as terrible as I might have thought. The main reason I was saying that not much else can be done is just that any sounds the computer makes or windows that pop over the game area will be recorded.
I need to try recording and talking on teamspeak again. The last time we didn't decide to record until around 1 or 2 minutes before the game. I expected to try and help with the commentary but for some reason after starting the recording my mic wasn't transmitting on teamspeak. I'm not really sure what caused it as at that point the game had started and I didn't have time to try and diagnose it. So it may still be possible to both comment and record.
Janzert
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