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   Move 33
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   Author  Topic: Move 33  (Read 8029 times)
Soter
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #75 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 6:46am »
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Please indicate voice vote for  33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s.
 
OK, I agree - let's play this one.
« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2008, 6:46am by Soter » IP Logged
warren
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #76 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 7:11am »
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on Jun 10th, 2008, 4:18am, RonWeasley wrote:

 
I was thinking the same thing.  Moves not including the goal threat seem to end in the loss of our dog.  We've refuted moving our horse with our last two steps.  Are there any other moves to consider?  At least we can identify our current move as unclear.
 
Please indicate voice vote for  33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s.  I'll use 7 votes (including mine) as a majority.  I'd like to move tomorrow.  If productive discussion pops up about another move, I will hold off.

 
I support that move.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #77 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 10:28am »
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I am not be interested in 33b Da3n hb3w dd7s dd6s if it insures that we will lose our dog for compensation, because 33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s does at least that well, and if we are lucky it might do better and allow us to keep ahead materially.
 
So my question before I vote is whether anybody believes we can save our material advantage after
 
33b Da3n hb3w dd7s dd6s
 34w Ec4w rd4w Eb4s rc4w.
 
(Sorry I haven't been able to look at it myself.)
(Anyway one more vote decides it no matter what I say, so it would be easier for someone to seal the outcome than to answer the question. Tongue)
« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2008, 10:30am by Fritzlein » IP Logged

mistre
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #78 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 11:02am »
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Not looking at any future lines - I like 33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s better because it gets our E back central and also keeps our Horse contesting the c3 trap.
 
From that standpoint, it would seem to be the safer move.
« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2008, 1:12pm by mistre » IP Logged

RonWeasley
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #79 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 11:28am »
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on Jun 10th, 2008, 10:28am, Fritzlein wrote:
I am not be interested in 33b Da3n hb3w dd7s dd6s if it insures that we will lose our dog for compensation, because 33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s does at least that well, and if we are lucky it might do better and allow us to keep ahead materially.
 
So my question before I vote is whether anybody believes we can save our material advantage after
 
33b Da3n hb3w dd7s dd6s
 34w Ec4w rd4w Eb4s rc4w.
 
(Sorry I haven't been able to look at it myself.)
(Anyway one more vote decides it no matter what I say, so it would be easier for someone to seal the outcome than to answer the question. Tongue)

 
I tried to continue with
 
34b ec2e Re2s ed2e {dd4s, rb7s}
35w Rb2e Rg1w Rc1e Rd1n (Instead of taking the rabbit and freeing the horse)
 
From here gold captures dog or horse.  This can be delayed at the cost of an extra rabbit or dog.  I don't see how to avoid this.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #80 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 11:32am »
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on Jun 10th, 2008, 11:02am, mistre wrote:
Not looking at any future lines - I like 33b Da3n hb3w dd7s dd6s better because it gets our E back central and also keeps our Horse contesting the c3 trap.
 
From that standpoint, it would seem to be the safer move.

 
For your text, I think you mean 33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s.  Yes?
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mistre
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #81 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 1:12pm »
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Yes, sorry about that.  I fixed it.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #82 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 3:06pm »
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OK, I am convinced.  Count me as the seventh vote for 33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s, although I am sorely tempted to vote for 33b ec2n ec3e dd7s dd6s instead.
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99of9
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #83 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 4:00pm »
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on Jun 7th, 2008, 4:19pm, warren wrote:

Hmm, it looks like we lose a rabbit or worse after
33b Da3n hb3w dd7s dd6s (99's bot, 12 and 16 ply)
 34w Ec4w rd4w Eb4s rc4w (jdb)
  34b rb7s rb6s rb4e dd5s (99)
These moves were already in the analysis tree, but I had neglected to think sufficiently about what would happen afterwards until your posting of that bot analysis directed me to it.
 
I therefore no longer like the above 33b.

 
This is still my favorite line, and I don't see how we lose a rabbit.  Is this what people think has refuted Gnobot's moveHuh
 
Sorry to be slow to chime it, it looks like I've missed my chance to make the case.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #84 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 4:16pm »
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Due to Mob pressure, I moved 33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s.  I almost used Fritzlein's alternate choice.
 
So let's see if this is what chessandgo planned on.  He was obviously ready for our last one.
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warren
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #85 on: Jun 12th, 2008, 7:36am »
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on Jun 10th, 2008, 4:00pm, 99of9 wrote:

 
This is still my favorite line, and I don't see how we lose a rabbit.  Is this what people think has refuted Gnobot's moveHuh
 
Sorry to be slow to chime it, it looks like I've missed my chance to make the case.

 
Regarding
33b Da3n hb3w dd7s dd6s (99's bot, 12 and 16 ply)
 34w Ec4w rd4w Eb4s rc4w (jdb)
  34b rb7s rb6s rb4e dd5s (99)
I don't have a proof that we would lose something; I just don't see a good way for us to save all our threatened pieces after that line. How would you envision that line continuing?
« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2008, 7:37am by warren » IP Logged
Fritzlein
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #86 on: Jun 12th, 2008, 9:34am »
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I guess it is for the doubters to propose a refutation, since 99of9 has already given his move.  How about 35w Rg1w Rf1w Re1w Re2w?  I'm curious whether 99of9 can show we chose the wrong move...
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99of9
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #87 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 12:40am »
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33b Da3n hb3w dd7s dd6s (99's bot, 12 and 16 ply)
..34w Ec4w rd4w Eb4s rc4w (jdb)
....34b rb7s rb6s rb4e dd5s (99)
......35w Rg1w Rf1w Re1w Re2w (F)
........35b ec2n ec3e rc4s rc3s (99)
..........36w Hf2s dg2w df2n df3x Hf1n (here's the piece you want to capture)
............36b Rd2e ed3s dd4s rb5s
 
Now the question is, can you (ie Jean) stop me forcing that rabbit through or taking control?
 
It looks easy, with something like:
37w Rh1w Rg1w Rf1w Cg3n
but then
37b dd3w ed2n Rd1n rh7s
Now my rabbit seems to have an almost permanent 7th rank outpost, and your elephant is semi-blockaded!  I can keep pulling rabbits to thin the defences to my heart's content.  That position looks very favourable to silver to me.
 
How would you improve on this line for gold?  Would you accept the dog capture?
« Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2008, 12:42am by 99of9 » IP Logged
chessandgo
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #88 on: Mar 14th, 2010, 5:54am »
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on Jun 13th, 2008, 12:40am, 99of9 wrote:
33b Da3n hb3w dd7s dd6s (99's bot, 12 and 16 ply)
..34w Ec4w rd4w Eb4s rc4w (jdb)
....34b rb7s rb6s rb4e dd5s (99)
......35w Rg1w Rf1w Re1w Re2w (F)
........35b ec2n ec3e rc4s rc3s (99)
..........36w Hf2s dg2w df2n df3x Hf1n (here's the piece you want to capture)
............36b Rd2e ed3s dd4s rb5s
 
Now the question is, can you (ie Jean) stop me forcing that rabbit through or taking control?
 
It looks easy, with something like:
37w Rh1w Rg1w Rf1w Cg3n
but then
37b dd3w ed2n Rd1n rh7s
Now my rabbit seems to have an almost permanent 7th rank outpost, and your elephant is semi-blockaded!  I can keep pulling rabbits to thin the defences to my heart's content.  That position looks very favourable to silver to me.
 
How would you improve on this line for gold?  Would you accept the dog capture?

 
35g Rg1www De3w perhaps?
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #89 on: Mar 14th, 2010, 6:39am »
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nice piece of analysis, this whole thread, by the way. I realize now better than ever that I stood little chance in a tactical fight. As soon as I had lost the strategic battle my chances were almost null I guess. Impressive thread Smiley
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