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   Move 33
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   Author  Topic: Move 33  (Read 8397 times)
warren
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #60 on: Jun 8th, 2008, 8:42am »
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on Jun 7th, 2008, 11:45pm, Soter wrote:

 
Fritz, I don't have enough free time to analyse the whole thing deeply, but doesn't 35b ee3w dd5w dc5s dc4s give us some hope?

 
It gives plenty of hope, but they appear to be false hopes! His swarm of rabbits and other pieces can get in the way faster than we can clear them, so goal threats seem like a tactical trick rather than something that we expect to actually succeed at this point. As noted in the analysis tree (see page 2 of posts), Fritz suggested a counter to that move, namely
    35b ee3w dd5w dc5s dc4s (Fritzlein)
     36w Da3n Da4e Db4e xxxx
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #61 on: Jun 8th, 2008, 9:27am »
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on Jun 7th, 2008, 1:46pm, Fritzlein wrote:

I'm going to analyze arimaa_master's move again without Bomb (now that I have moved in all my neglected Postal Mixer games (How can you play so many, arimaa_master?)).

 
I used to play very quickly (starting to take more time only when I get into trouble where unfortunately is too late and extra time is of no help Smiley).
 
 
This reminds me old joke of two processors conversation:
 
AMD talks to Intel:
 
AMD (slowly): What is the outcome of 1 + 1?
Intel (quickly): 3
AMD (slowly): But this is wrong answer!
Intel (quickly): Wrong but quick!
 
Smiley
 
 
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #62 on: Jun 8th, 2008, 9:37am »
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All in all it seems that  
 
33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s  
 
is our only good choice, isnīt it?
 
So I am for voice vote (and analyze glitches on chessandgo's time)!.
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warren
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #63 on: Jun 8th, 2008, 10:07am »
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on Jun 8th, 2008, 9:37am, arimaa_master wrote:
All in all it seems that  
 
33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s  
 
is our only good choice, isnīt it?
 
So I am for voice vote (and analyze glitches on chessandgo's time)!.

 
Our time reserve is almost full (16.5 out of 21 days), this move seems pivotal and the best move isn't blindingly obvious to me, so I think we should use most or all of the alloted week thinking about this move (we have 2.5 days left). I currently support the move you mention, however I don't think we should start making an official decision for another day or so. Recall last move when chessandgo surprised us!
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #64 on: Jun 8th, 2008, 11:22am »
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on Jun 8th, 2008, 10:07am, warren wrote:
Our time reserve is almost full (16.5 out of 21 days), this move seems pivotal and the best move isn't blindingly obvious to me, so I think we should use most or all of the alloted week thinking about this move

Agreed, as long as people keep contributing analysis.  From my brief stint as Mob Coordinator, I can say it was frustrating to extend discussion on a critical move only to hear silence from then on.
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jdb
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #65 on: Jun 8th, 2008, 12:59pm »
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on Jun 8th, 2008, 6:07am, Fritzlein wrote:

That 34w stops goal effectively, but the rabbit shuffle gives us time to contest both traps.  In other lines our swarm was just a step or two too slow, but after
 
33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s
34w Rb2e Ra2e Rc2e Rb2e
34b De3e ed3e rd4s rb7s
 
we should be able to hang on to our material advantage and therefore be in good shape.

 
34w Ec4w hb3s Eb4s Rg1w
 
The a3 dog can be used to create framing threats to gain control of the c3 trap. With two more steps of rabbit shuffles, the silver elephant wont be able to get access to the second rank to free the hostages. There may be a tactical way for silver to get out of this, but time is of the essence.  
 
 
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #66 on: Jun 8th, 2008, 1:23pm »
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on Jun 8th, 2008, 12:59pm, jdb wrote:
34w Ec4w hb3s Eb4s Rg1w
 
The a3 dog can be used to create framing threats to gain control of the c3 trap. With two more steps of rabbit shuffles, the silver elephant wont be able to get access to the second rank to free the hostages. There may be a tactical way for silver to get out of this, but time is of the essence.

Ah, I hadn't considered the threat to frame our dog in c3 among the active plans for Gold.  Now that I look at it, though, it seems we can delay that threat indefinitely by pulling his rabbit into c3 first.
 
33b ec2n ec3e dd7s dd6s
34w Rb2e Ra2e Rc2e Rb2e
34b De3e ed3e rd4s rb7s
35w Ec4w hb3s Eb4s Rg1w
35b dd5w dc5s rb6s rb5s
36w Da3n rb4n Da4e Rf1w
36b dc4s dc3n Rc2n ra8s
 
That would be an interesting position, with neither side able to make immediate threats, since neither elephant is free, but our material advantage is intact, and we should be able to give as good as we get from there on, since we can swarm further without danger while he cannot.
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jdb
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #67 on: Jun 8th, 2008, 5:44pm »
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on Jun 8th, 2008, 1:23pm, Fritzlein wrote:

Ah, I hadn't considered the threat to frame our dog in c3 among the active plans for Gold.  Now that I look at it, though, it seems we can delay that threat indefinitely by pulling his rabbit into c3 first.
 
33b ec2n ec3e dd7s dd6s
34w Rb2e Ra2e Rc2e Rb2e
34b De3e ed3e rd4s rb7s
35w Ec4w hb3s Eb4s Rg1w
35b dd5w dc5s rb6s rb5s
36w Da3n rb4n Da4e Rf1w
36b dc4s dc3n Rc2n ra8s
 
That would be an interesting position, with neither side able to make immediate threats, since neither elephant is free, but our material advantage is intact, and we should be able to give as good as we get from there on, since we can swarm further without danger while he cannot.

 
Gold's elephant can try and take the c4 dog hostage. The gold dog can take up position on b5 to hold back the rabbits. The position looks very complicated, which favours our side. Seems like a playable continuation.
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UruramTururam
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #68 on: Jun 9th, 2008, 3:06am »
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on Jun 8th, 2008, 9:37am, arimaa_master wrote:
All in all it seems that  
 
33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s  
 
is our only good choice, isnīt it?

 
Yes, it seems to be...
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warren
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #69 on: Jun 9th, 2008, 6:22am »
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I just got a Bomb registration code, but  now I need a move list. The first 13 moves are available http://arimaa.com/arimaa/twiki/bin/view/Arimaa/MoveList, but I don't really want to type in the next 20 by hand. Could someone who already has a current text move list (e.g. those with bots) please spend 60 seconds and update the wiki page?
 
thanks
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #70 on: Jun 9th, 2008, 9:08am »
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on Jun 9th, 2008, 6:22am, warren wrote:
I just got a Bomb registration code, but  now I need a move list. The first 13 moves are available http://arimaa.com/arimaa/twiki/bin/view/Arimaa/MoveList, but I don't really want to type in the next 20 by hand. Could someone who already has a current text move list (e.g. those with bots) please spend 60 seconds and update the wiki page?
 
thanks

 
You can get move list from the game (but you need last game client selected). Just go to the Settings - Game Client - and select "Flash client V2 ...". Then load the Mob game from the list of postal games (Games - Postal games - it is very last down) and then only press "L" button below notation and you have what you want Smiley
 
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #71 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 4:18am »
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on Jun 8th, 2008, 9:37am, arimaa_master wrote:
All in all it seems that  
 
33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s  
 
is our only good choice, isnīt it?
 
So I am for voice vote (and analyze glitches on chessandgo's time)!.

 
I was thinking the same thing.  Moves not including the goal threat seem to end in the loss of our dog.  We've refuted moving our horse with our last two steps.  Are there any other moves to consider?  At least we can identify our current move as unclear.
 
Please indicate voice vote for  33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s.  I'll use 7 votes (including mine) as a majority.  I'd like to move tomorrow.  If productive discussion pops up about another move, I will hold off.
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #72 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 5:00am »
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on Jun 10th, 2008, 4:18am, RonWeasley wrote:

Please indicate voice vote for  33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s.  I'll use 7 votes (including mine) as a majority.  I'd like to move tomorrow.  If productive discussion pops up about another move, I will hold off.

 
So my vote to 33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s  Cool
« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2008, 5:01am by arimaa_master » IP Logged
jdb
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #73 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 5:13am »
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on Jun 10th, 2008, 5:00am, arimaa_master wrote:

 
So my vote to 33b ec2e ed2n dd7s dd6s  Cool

 
I vote to play this move.
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mistre
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Re: Move 33
« Reply #74 on: Jun 10th, 2008, 5:46am »
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It is the best we got - vote.
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