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   2007 One vs TheMob
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   Move 34
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   Author  Topic: Move 34  (Read 2993 times)
RonWeasley
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Move 34
« on: Jun 12th, 2008, 12:34pm »
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chessandgo chooses the unexpected:
 
34w Rb3e Ec4s hb3s Ec3w
 
My reflex is to consider De3e ed3e rd4s rd3s.
 
Also moves occupying c4 to use the temporary goal threat to aid a swarm.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #1 on: Jun 12th, 2008, 12:45pm »
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on Jun 12th, 2008, 12:34pm, RonWeasley wrote:
chessandgo chooses the unexpected:
 
34w Rb3e Ec4s hb3s Ec3w
 
My reflex is to consider De3e ed3e rd4s rd3s.
 
Also moves occupying c4 to use the temporary goal threat to aid a swarm.

Er, actually this is the widely anticipated 34w Ec4w Rb3e hb3s Eb4s.  Your reflex is the same as mine, but appears to be refuted by arimaa_master's suggestion.  Does the move 34b dd5w dc5s rb7s rb6s fare better?
 
Here is warren's tree from last move:
 
  34b De3e ed3e ee3w rb7s
   35w Df3n Rc1e Da3n Da4e
    35b ed3e rd4s dd5w dc5s
     36w Db4n Eb3n Eb4s dc4w (Warren)
......36b ee3n Df4n ee4e ce7s (Warren)
...... 37w Eb3e Ec3w rd3wx Db5w
......  37b Df5nx ef4n ef5w ee5w
......   38w Eb3w hb2n hb3ex Ea3e
......    38b ed5w ec5w db4e dc4n
......     39w Hf2s dg2w df2nx Hf1n
  34b De3e ed3e rd4s rd3s (F)
   35w Rc1e Rg1w Rf1w Df3n (AM)
    35b ee3w dd5w dc5s rb7s (the jeh)
     36w Re2n Hf2w He2e rd2e
......36b Re3n ed3e re2w ee3w
    35b ee3w dd5w dc5s dc4s (Fritzlein)
     36w Da3n Da4e Db4e Df4w
  .   36b See Fritzlein's post at the bottom of page 4 for continuations.
  34b dd5w dc5s rb7s rb6s (F)
  .35w Re2w Da3n Rb1w Ra2n
  . 35b De3e ed3e rd4s ra8s
  .  36w Da4n Da5n Da6e Ra3n
  .   36b dc4s dc3n Rc2n ee3s
  .    37w Df3w Db6n cc7s cc6x Db7e
  .     37b ee2s Rd2e dc4e rd3s
  .     .38w De3w hb2w Eb3s Rc1e
  .     . 38b Re2n ee1n rb5s rb4s
  .     .  39w Rc3n Dd3w rd2n Dc3s
  .     .   39b ee2w Dc2n ed2w rd3s
  .     .    40w Hf2w rd2n He2w Ra4n
  .     .     40b Rc4w Dc3x dd4w dc4n dc5w  
  .35w De3n rd4n De4w Da3n (F)
  . 35b ed3e Re2s ee3s dc4n
  .  36w Eb3e hb2n Ec3n hb3e hc3x
  .   36b Hf2n ee2e Cg3n Hf3x dg2n
  .    37w Ec4s dc5s Ec3e dc4s dc3x
  .     37b Cg4w dg3n Cf4s Cf3x dg4w
« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2008, 12:48pm by Fritzlein » IP Logged

UruramTururam
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #2 on: Jun 12th, 2008, 2:36pm »
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And how about: De3n ed3e rd4s rd3s?
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #3 on: Jun 12th, 2008, 7:19pm »
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At 15 ply Gnobot suggests:
34b De3n ed3e Re2s ee3s
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The_Jeh
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #4 on: Jun 12th, 2008, 10:04pm »
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Here's a new idea that I'll go ahead and throw into the mix:
 
34b ed3s De3w Re2s ed2e
 
Chessandgo's possible responses:
1. Capture our horse
     Fine. We'll trade horses, which is good for those up material, and we'll wind up with what I think is a superior position.
2. Capture our rabbit
     Fine. We'll trade horses, win a cat for a rabbit, and simply be winning. In addition to his material deficit, please note chessandgo's salient weakness in the east under this variation.
3. Something else
     This could get interesting. Chessandgo will have to move his dog over to prevent us from taking the horse. Then he'll have to expend a step to prevent us from goaling. Or if he prevents material capture in another way -  by moving his horse - then his position is weakened considerably because our dog will be out of the threat of immediate capture. I'm not sure that he can get away with much with any remaining two steps.
 
Can our position be improved regardless of his response?
« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2008, 10:16pm by The_Jeh » IP Logged
99of9
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #5 on: Jun 12th, 2008, 11:27pm »
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on Jun 12th, 2008, 10:04pm, The_Jeh wrote:
Here's a new idea that I'll go ahead and throw into the mix:
 
34b ed3s De3w Re2s ed2e
 
Chessandgo's possible responses:
1. Capture our horse
     Fine. We'll trade horses, which is good for those up material, and we'll wind up with what I think is a superior position.
2. Capture our rabbit
     Fine. We'll trade horses, win a cat for a rabbit, and simply be winning. In addition to his material deficit, please note chessandgo's salient weakness in the east under this variation.
3. Something else
     This could get interesting. Chessandgo will have to move his dog over to prevent us from taking the horse. Then he'll have to expend a step to prevent us from goaling. Or if he prevents material capture in another way -  by moving his horse - then his position is weakened considerably because our dog will be out of the threat of immediate capture. I'm not sure that he can get away with much with any remaining two steps.
 
Can our position be improved regardless of his response?

Everything you've said is true for Gnobot's suggested move too.  The main difference is that after Gnobby's move we have a direct goal threat even if he doesn't move his dog (which prevents Jean from killing our horse apart from through the trap).  On the down side for Gnobot, Jean will have two choices for where to put the dog, e3 or f4, but I don't think that f4 is particularly special, so I don't mind offering that.
 
Obviously he won't play option 1 or 2... now we just need to figure out what his best response to each move is.
« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2008, 11:32pm by 99of9 » IP Logged
arimaa_master
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #6 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 3:49am »
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My suggestion:
 
34b rd4w rc4s dd5s dd4w
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99of9
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #7 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 6:16am »
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on Jun 13th, 2008, 3:49am, arimaa_master wrote:
My suggestion:
 
34b rd4w rc4s dd5s dd4w

That is very interesting indeed!  Nice idea.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #8 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 7:17am »
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on Jun 13th, 2008, 3:49am, arimaa_master wrote:
My suggestion:
 
34b rd4w rc4s dd5s dd4w

If I remember correctly, I looked at at that when analyzing last move, and concluded we lose our dog after 35w Re2w Eb3n Eb4s dc4w.  However, I could be misremembering and anyway didn't analyze very deeply.
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mistre
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #9 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 10:02am »
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on Jun 12th, 2008, 11:27pm, 99of9 wrote:

Obviously he won't play option 1 or 2... now we just need to figure out what his best response to each move is.

 
In regards to Gnobby's move -  
 
34b De3n ed3e Re2s ee3s
35w De4s rd4e Rg1w Rc1e  
35b De3e ee2n ee3w dd5s
36w Df3n Da3n Da4e Db4e  
 
Our goal threat is stopped and we will lose either our D or H the next move.
 
In regards to The_Jeh's move -  
 
34b ed3s De3w Re2s ed2e  
35w Dd3e Rg1w Rc2e Rc1n
35b De3e ee2n ee3w rd4w
36w Df3n Eb3n Eb4s rc4w
 
We are in the same boat as Gnobby's move.  In my opinion neither of these moves are a good option.
 
 
 
 
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #10 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 10:20am »
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on Jun 13th, 2008, 7:17am, Fritzlein wrote:

If I remember correctly, I looked at at that when analyzing last move, and concluded we lose our dog after 35w Re2w Eb3n Eb4s dc4w.  However, I could be misremembering and anyway didn't analyze very deeply.

 
Of course we lose our dog, my mistake. Thanks for spotting that.
 
Just forget that crazy  34b rd4w rc4s dd5s dd4w.
 
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #11 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 10:21am »
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on Jun 13th, 2008, 10:02am, mistre wrote:

 
In regards to The_Jeh's move -  
 
34b ed3s De3w Re2s ed2e  
35w Dd3e Rg1w Rc2e Rc1n
35b De3e ee2n ee3w rd4w
36w Df3n Eb3n Eb4s rc4w
 
We are in the same boat as Gnobby's move.  In my opinion neither of these moves are a good option.
 

 
I assume you mean 35w Dd3e Rg1w Rc2e Rd1n
 
What about something like 35b Hf2n ee2e dg2e Cg3s or 35b Hf2n ee2e dg2s Cg3s, for either my move or Gnobby's? It kind of looks like we can get our dog farther from the trap and come back to c3 in time, or else trade material.
« Last Edit: Jun 13th, 2008, 10:28am by The_Jeh » IP Logged
mistre
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #12 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 10:42am »
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I think this one is my favorite move (proposed by Fritz) and we need to be analyzing it in more depth.  It appears to hold the most promise so far...
 
34b dd5w dc5s rb7s rb6s
 
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #13 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 12:53pm »
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on Jun 12th, 2008, 2:36pm, UruramTururam wrote:
And how about: De3n ed3e rd4s rd3s?

This seems to lose a step relative to pushing the dog into the trap, when chessandgo has to use a step to get his dog out of f3 so as to re-establish the threat to our hostage dog.  Our elephant isn't really threatening to capture chessandgo's dog, since to do so would lose us both our horse and our dog.
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Re: Move 34
« Reply #14 on: Jun 13th, 2008, 6:59pm »
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on Jun 13th, 2008, 10:21am, The_Jeh wrote:

 
I assume you mean 35w Dd3e Rg1w Rc2e Rd1n
 
What about something like 35b Hf2n ee2e dg2e Cg3s or 35b Hf2n ee2e dg2s Cg3s, for either my move or Gnobby's? It kind of looks like we can get our dog farther from the trap and come back to c3 in time, or else trade material.

36w Hf3e Re1n Rd1n Da3n
Then we can't get back to c3 and I can't see a way to threaten material either.  So I think mistre is right that Gnobby's move is refuted.
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