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   Author  Topic: Move 39  (Read 3415 times)
Janzert
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Move 39
« on: Sep 2nd, 2008, 12:48am »
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Chessandgo responds in 1 hour, 13 minutes.
 
39g Eb3e hb2n Ec3n hb3e hc3x
 
Previous tree from this position:
39s dc5n ef4e Hg3w eg4s
    40g Ec4n rb5s Ec5w Da3e
    .    40s dg2w Hf3n eg3w dc6w -+
    40g Ec4n rb5s Ec5w Hf3s
    .    40s dg2e eg3s Hf2n eg2w =+
 
Janzert
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #1 on: Sep 2nd, 2008, 5:01am »
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I looked at 39s dc4n ef4w ef4e Re4n.
 
This weakens the f3 trap for gold more than pushing the horse onto it.  In the long term both moves may be of similar strength, but a rabbit pull is permanent.
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mistre
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Re: Move 39d
« Reply #2 on: Sep 2nd, 2008, 9:09am »
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Is it possible to give up our Dog to set up a position where we take his Horse without further losses?
 
I am thinking:
 
39s ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2e
       40g Ec4s dc5s Ec3e dc4s dc3x
             40s Hg4n ef4e ce7s ce6s
 
At this point there is enough traffic in the center of the board to prevent chessandgo from getting his E over to defend the f6 trap.  He could use two Rabbits to block the immediate capture, but we can take 1 and still have a lock on the f6 trap.  
 
Either this is a very strong move or I am missing an obvious countermove.
 
Edit:  He could give up the H for our D and bring his E over to take our remaining dog hostage. So is H for D with a D hostage worth it for us?
 
Edit2: I don't know how I got the s and g mixed up, but I did. Tongue  It's fixed now.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2008, 6:52pm by mistre » IP Logged

Fritzlein
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #3 on: Sep 2nd, 2008, 9:21am »
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Also 39g ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2n deserves examination.
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #4 on: Sep 2nd, 2008, 9:28am »
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on Sep 2nd, 2008, 5:01am, RonWeasley wrote:
I looked at 39s dc4n ef4w ef4e Re4n.

Also variants without dc4n are possible because the threat to his horse spares our dog temporarily.  Not that I see a more useful step, but it's worth keeping in mind.
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #5 on: Sep 2nd, 2008, 2:23pm »
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on Sep 2nd, 2008, 5:01am, RonWeasley wrote:
I looked at 39s dc4n ef4w ef4e Re4n.
 
This weakens the f3 trap for gold more than pushing the horse onto it.  In the long term both moves may be of similar strength, but a rabbit pull is permanent.

The response to beat may be 40g rh4w Ch3n Ec4s Ec3e.  It would be a shame if failing to free our dog hostage now meant that we lost the opportunity.  But there may be tactics I'm not seeing.
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2008, 2:24pm by Fritzlein » IP Logged

warren
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 2nd, 2008, 5:29pm »
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39s ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2e (mistre)
   40g Ec4s dc5s Ec3e dc4s dc3x
   .   40s Hg4n ef4e ce7s ce6s  
39s ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2n (F)
 
 39s dc5n ef4e Hg3w eg4s (F from prev move)
   40g Ec4n rb5s Ec5w Da3e
   .   40s dg2w Hf3n eg3w dc6w -+
   40g Ec4n rb5s Ec5w Hf3s
   .   40s dg2e eg3s Hf2n eg2w =+  
 
39s dc4n ef4w ef4e Re4n (RW)
   40g rh4w Ch3n Ec4s Ec3e (F)
39s ???? ef4w ef4e Re4n (F)
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warren
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Re: Move 39d
« Reply #7 on: Sep 2nd, 2008, 6:36pm »
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on Sep 2nd, 2008, 9:09am, mistre wrote:
Is it possible to give up our Dog to set up a position where we take his Horse without further losses?
 
I am thinking:
 
39g ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2e
  40s Ec4s dc5s Ec3e dc4s dc3x
   40g Hg4n ef4e ce7s ce6s
 
At this point there is enough traffic in the center of the board to prevent chessandgo from getting his E over to defend the f6 trap.  He could use two Rabbits to block the immediate capture, but we can take 1 and still have a lock on the f6 trap.  
 
Either this is a very strong move or I am missing an obvious countermove.
 
Edit:  He could give up the H for our D and bring his E over to take our remaining dog hostage. So is H for D with a D hostage worth it for us?
 

 
I like your 39s but with a different 40s:
 39s ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2e (mistre)
   40g Ec4s dc5s Ec3e dc4s dc3x
   .   40s Hg4n ef4e eg4w ef4n (W)
 
That leaves our elephant in a better position, especially if he sends his dog north to threaten our c7 cat.
 
Here's a possible continuation that has him send his dog north to threaten and capture our c7 cat, our elephant capturing his horse at f6 trap and dog at c6 trap, and finally his elephant capturing our dog at the f3 trap, leaving us up a rabbit. I.e:
 
39b ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2e
40w Ec4s dc5s Ec3e dc4s dc3x
40b Hg4n ef4e eg4w ef4n
41w Da3n Da4n Da5n Da6e
41b ef5n Hg5w ef6w Hf5n Hf6x
42w Db6n cc7s cc6x Db7e Dc7w
42b ee6w ce7s ed6n ed7w
43w Ed3s Ed2e Ee2e Ef2e
43b Db7s ec7w Db6e Dc6x eb7s
44w Eg2w dh2w Rc2w Pass
 
Please take my proposed 40b more seriously than the speculative continuation after it.
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UruramTururam
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #8 on: Sep 2nd, 2008, 11:07pm »
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on Sep 2nd, 2008, 9:21am, Fritzlein wrote:
Also 39g ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2n deserves examination.

 
Quite a "race" position. I like it. I feel we should be ahead then.
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #9 on: Sep 3rd, 2008, 5:14pm »
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on Sep 2nd, 2008, 11:07pm, UruramTururam wrote:

 
Quite a "race" position. I like it. I feel we should be ahead then.

Do you prefer dg2n or dg2e as the fourth step in 39g ef4e eg4w Hg3n ____? If the former, can you explain why?
 
I currently prefer dg2e because in the most likely continuation that I see gold's elephant would threaten to capture our dog if we left it on g3.
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UruramTururam
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #10 on: Sep 3rd, 2008, 10:51pm »
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I prefer going north as we try to threaten both gold horse and cat. The position is a bit sharper.
 
By the way i think consulting Bomb in our current position could make sense...
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #11 on: Sep 5th, 2008, 4:35am »
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Several moves and ideas still in play.  Let's plan on voting Monday and try to finish discussion this weekend.
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warren
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #12 on: Sep 6th, 2008, 7:19am »
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on Sep 5th, 2008, 4:35am, RonWeasley wrote:
Several moves and ideas still in play.  Let's plan on voting Monday and try to finish discussion this weekend.

 
Does anyone support a move other than
39s ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2e (mistre)
or
39s ef4e eg4w Hg3n dg2n (F)
?
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99of9
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #13 on: Sep 7th, 2008, 3:38am »
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on Sep 3rd, 2008, 10:51pm, UruramTururam wrote:

By the way i think consulting Bomb in our current position could make sense...

At 12&13 ply gnobot suggests:
39s ef4w ee4e Re3n ef4e
(a bit like Ron's suggestion, but Fritz's countermove no longer works)
 
I'll set it running again after the continuous tourney game.
 
[Edit]
At 14 ply it changes to:
dc5n dc6w rd5e re5e
but this just looks weak.
« Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2008, 4:00am by 99of9 » IP Logged
Fritzlein
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Re: Move 39
« Reply #14 on: Sep 7th, 2008, 5:35am »
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on Sep 7th, 2008, 3:38am, 99of9 wrote:

At 12&13 ply gnobot suggests:
39s ef4w ee4e Re3n ef4e
(a bit like Ron's suggestion, but Fritz's countermove no longer works)

I thought of that: if Gold takes our dog with his horse it seems we get just a horse for both of our dogs.
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