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ikalyoncu
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2015 Move 7
« on: Oct 2nd, 2015, 2:36am »
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6s has played, swinging the rabbit from h3 to g4. I guess we can swing the camel from g5 to f4 on 7g, following chessandgo's suggestion on move 6 thread.
 
It is noteworthy that after 7g Ef5w mg5w mf5s Ee5e 7s ed4e Rg4n mf4e hh4n, we can play 8g Ef5s Rg1n Hg3e Hh3n and end up with a very good hostage, therefore we should expect hh4s step on 7s.
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #1 on: Oct 2nd, 2015, 3:08am »
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I've been looking at various possibilities for continuing the attack in the west and none of them look good. The problem is if we don't do something to the silver camel 7s could be something like: rh6s mg5n Rg4n X (X probably being an elephant move like ed4n). At which point silver is in a position to disrupt our attack, force our elephant to the west and capture our rabbit, and we aren't in a position to get any compensation.
 
I think we are going to have to generate some kind of threat in the east if the attack in the west is to get anywhere. Flipping the camel to f4 is a possibility. Alternatively something like Ra2n Ra4n Ef5w mg5w would allow us to make at least some progress with the attack, whilst simultaneously generating a threat around f3.
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chessandgo
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #2 on: Oct 2nd, 2015, 10:30am »
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on Oct 2nd, 2015, 2:36am, ikalyoncu wrote:

 
It is noteworthy that after 7g Ef5w mg5w mf5s Ee5e 7s ed4e Rg4n mf4e hh4n, we can play 8g Ef5s Rg1n Hg3e Hh3n and end up with a very good hostage, therefore we should expect hh4s step on 7s.

 
The horse staying on h4 would be enough.  
 
The scariest answer wrt silver's f3 attack would be:
7g Ef5w mg5w mf5s Ee5e
7s ed4e Rg4n mf4e ee4e
I think we'd have to race with our b-file attack:
8g Mb3n Mb4n Mb5s hb6s
8s Hg3w mg4s hh4w rb7s
9g Mb4s hb5s De2n Rg5e (without the last step there is a frame on f3), and it looks like we get there first after:
9s mg3s Cf2w mg2w hg4s
10g Ef5e Eg5s hg3e Eg4s
 
Lots of other things for silver to try of course.
 
I'm not sure what the best 4th step would be for silver if it keeps its elephant centered on 7s, nothing looks very appealing, maybe de6e? At worst we would be in an ok defensive position with 8g Rg5e Ef5e x x and ready with the b-file attack on the next turn?
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2015, 10:35am by chessandgo » IP Logged

browni3141
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #3 on: Oct 2nd, 2015, 11:50am »
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What is the reason for the camel flip?
7g Ef5w mg5w mf5s Ee5e
7s ed4e Rg4n mf4e ee4w
Has silver not gained something for nothing here?
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SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #4 on: Oct 2nd, 2015, 2:45pm »
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I'm inclined to prefer Ed4 to Ef4 as the 4th step if we flip the camel, although I'm not sure I'd play either.  I'm most curious about the Hh5 step (I'm not convinced of a good hostage after 8g g2 Hh4 Ef4 8s H:Rf5/g6 M:Hh3).
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2015, 3:37pm by SilverMitt » IP Logged
arimaa_master
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #5 on: Oct 2nd, 2015, 7:34pm »
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on Oct 2nd, 2015, 11:50am, browni3141 wrote:
What is the reason for the camel flip?
7g Ef5w mg5w mf5s Ee5e
7s ed4e Rg4n mf4e ee4w
Has silver not gained something for nothing here?

 
Those were my thought exactly too. At first glance I would play something like this 7g Rh2n Rg1n Rg2e Ra1n (few seconds later I see that silver can answer with rh6s mg5n Rg4n ..., which doesn´t seem good for us, so for now I don´t have a good 7g candidate).
 
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2015, 7:38pm by arimaa_master » IP Logged
chessandgo
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #6 on: Oct 3rd, 2015, 3:33am »
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How about  
7g Ef5w mg5w mf5s Ee5e
7s ed4e Rg4n mf4e ee4w
8g Rg5e Ef5e Mb3n Ra4n or 8g Ef5s Ef4n mg4w Mb3n?
It seems to me we have decent chances to get that hb6 pull.
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #7 on: Oct 5th, 2015, 7:02am »
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We have been using up some of our reserve in the last few moves. This is a little bit concerning as we haven't been in a particularly complicated position yet. Can we try and start the poll in time for the move to be made before we have to dip into the reserve, and save it for when we really need it?
 
As for the move we should play, I agree with chessandgo. The camel flip looks good and I can't see any other alternative that is likely to get us anywhere.
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deep_blue
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #8 on: Oct 5th, 2015, 7:39am »
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So far considered moves:
7g Ef5w mg5w mf5s Ee5e
 
To be noted: We haven't considered any alternatives so far. Please try to find some, since otherwise we can't compare the camel flip lines to any other.
 
If we still have only one move tomorrow evening (as usual "UTC evening") I will play the move without poll.
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lucifugero
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #9 on: Oct 5th, 2015, 11:39am »
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i don't know if this could be considered:
 
7g De2n Ef5w Ee5e de6s
 
any thoughts on that?
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #10 on: Oct 5th, 2015, 12:04pm »
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Quote:
7g De2n Ef5w Ee5e de6s

 
Silver could undo the dog pull easily with something like 7s: dd5s de5n dd5n X, so this wouldn't get us anywhere.
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SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #11 on: Oct 5th, 2015, 2:53pm »
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It seems that we should be fine with a rabbit sacrifice, in general, and the question is whether we could make progress in the west if it becomes EMH vs. EH, while silver works on capturing the rabbit before continuing the counterattack in the southeast.  I think we wind up behind in that sort of race.
 
Meanwhile, while silver could arguably be said to gain time after the camel flip, at least the camel will be more vulnerable on g4, and silver will eventually either have to retreat it or involve the elephant to keep it safe.  Our own rabbit is now rather in our way on the 4th rank and, while in more danger on the 5th, can also get in silver's way or require several steps to capture.
 
I am still interested in the analysis after 7g E::Mf4 7s Ee4 M:Rg5 Hh5.  After, say, 8g Ef4 g2 Hh4 8s H:Rg6 M:Hh3, would we be trying for a camel hostage with something like 9g Hg3 E:Mh3?
« Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2015, 2:53pm by SilverMitt » IP Logged
Heyckie
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #12 on: Oct 5th, 2015, 4:26pm »
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Some other candidates I can't immediately rule out:
 
7g Rg4w Rf4w Ra2n Rb1n
7g mg5e Ef5e Ra2n Rb1n
7g Rg4w Rf4w Ef5w mg5w
7g Ef5w mg5w Ra2n Rb1n
7g Ef5w mg5w Ra4n Mb3n
7g Rg4w Rf4w Ra4n Mb3n
7g Mb3n Mb4n Mb5w hb6s.
 
Better players probably can find a clear refutation to some of those. I don't like advancing eastern rabbits here.
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browni3141
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #13 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 1:13am »
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Perhaps it will be easier to discuss if we have some ideas to anchor on.
 
We probably shouldn't allow silver to get hg2 cheaply, so any quiet move should probably have either g1n or h2n.
 
The main idea of our opening so far was to delay silver attacking plans in the east while setting up a counter-attack in the west. It feels like a good time to advance that counter-attack as the east isn't critical or even moderately dangerous right now.
 
Based on this a move like 7g g1n b3nn a4n seems pretty good in principle.
 
Other attacking moves are potentially good in principle as well, such as 7g b3nnw b6s, but this should be searched deeper as things could get a little messy.
 
Silver's main counter-strategy to our western development is to threaten our g4 rabbit while seeking opportunities to advance the attack in the east, such as hg2.
 
Edit:
 
Silver's most concerning reply for me to 7g b3nnw b6s is hg2, but this line seems fairly forcing in response.
 
7g Mb3n Mb4n Mb5w hb6s
7s hh4s Rh2s hh3s hh2w
8g Ef5s Ef4s Hg3e Ef3e
8s ed4n ed5w ec5n ec6w
9g Eg3w hg2n Ef3n hg3w hf3x
9s eb6e Ha6e ec6s Hb6e Hc6x
10g Rg4e Ef4n mg5s Ef5e
10s hb5n ec5w eb5s Ma5e
11g mg4w Eg5s mf4s mf3x Eg4w
11s Mb5e eb4n Mc5n Mc6x eb5e
12g Ef4w Ee4n de6n Ee5n
 
Gold has a good position because f6 is relatively weak and he has more advanced rabbits on a depleted board. c3 is also weak, but silver will have a hard time exploiting it efficiently because gold has the initiative. The only way to get a quick attack would be to use the horse, and we can reply by returning with the elephant to take a hostage which we seem well set-up for.
 
Other 7s replies are less forcing, but also need some analyzing, and I may well have missed something is the line given.
 
7s rh6s mg5n Rg4n ed4w for example.
« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2015, 1:36am by browni3141 » IP Logged

SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 Move 7
« Reply #14 on: Oct 6th, 2015, 1:35am »
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Well, as I'd rather not play for a camel hostage, I am inclined to favor a move like 7g g2 a5 Mb5.  What would happen after a reply like 7s h5 Mg6:R Ec4, or what should we expect as 7s then?
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