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SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #30 on: Oct 23rd, 2015, 3:21pm »
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I'm persuaded that the Mb4 step is not good in conjunction with gh5 and h3.
 
The horse pull still seems unclear.  After 8g Mb4:H 8s Ec4 h5 De5, aside from the g5 rabbit, we still have a lot of positional factors in our favor.
 
I don't know what to expect from silver after 8g gh5 h3 gh2.  Perhaps 8s Mg5:H H:hg3?
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #31 on: Oct 24th, 2015, 5:21pm »
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What happened to my suggestion of 8g Rg5e Rh2n Ra4n Dd3n ?
 
An alternative response to
8g: Rg5e Rh2n Ra4n Mb3n
8s: ee4e  ed4e ec4e Mb4n
is the run away defence
9g: Mb5e Mc5e Md5s Md4s
This would cost both sides the same number of steps to return the M and e to the original positions, so on second thoughts this looks like a viable move.
 
 
 
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browni3141
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #32 on: Oct 24th, 2015, 11:03pm »
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Has this line been considered?
 
8g Mb3n Ra4n Rg5e Rh2n
8s ee4w ed4w Mb4n ec4w
9g hb6e Mb5n Mb6s Ha6e
9s eb4s eb3s Cc2n Cc3x eb2e
10g Hg3w Ef5e mg4s Eg5s
10s Dd2s ec2e ed2n ed3e
11g Hf3n Mb5e Mc5e hc6s
 
 
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Hippo
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #33 on: Oct 25th, 2015, 5:22am »
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on Oct 24th, 2015, 11:03pm, browni3141 wrote:
Has this line been considered?
 
8g Mb3n Ra4n Rg5e Rh2n
8s ee4w ed4w Mb4n ec4w
9g hb6e Mb5n Mb6s Ha6e
9s eb4s eb3s Cc2n Cc3x eb2e
10g Hg3w Ef5e mg4s Eg5s
10s Dd2s ec2e ed2n ed3e
11g Hf3n Mb5e Mc5e hc6s
 
 

 
And what about silver trading m for DCR, would you prefere stronger or bigger army?
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browni3141
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #34 on: Oct 25th, 2015, 12:59pm »
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on Oct 25th, 2015, 5:22am, Hippo wrote:

 
And what about silver trading m for DCR, would you prefere stronger or bigger army?

 
We retain a big positional advantage, so I much prefer gold.  
 
10s ec2w Dd2w Dc2n Dc3x eb2e
11g Hf3w mg3w mf3x Eg4s Eg3n
 
Gold is clearly winning.
« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2015, 1:02pm by browni3141 » IP Logged

deep_blue
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #35 on: Oct 25th, 2015, 4:25pm »
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BETA TREE
(sorry, have to go, this tree is incomplete, its up to (not including) post #25 by Hippo)
Analysis tree (with what we think the minimax value might be; feel free to correct my evaluations):
A - 8g Mb3n Mb4n Mb5s hb6s (Mb4:h) +=
A1 - - 8s ee4e Hg3w mg4s hh4w +/-
A11 - - - 9g De2n Dd2e Mb4s hb5s +/-
 
A2 - - 8s ee4e Hg3e mg4s hh4w +=
A21 - - - 9g Mb4s hb5s De2n Rg5e +=
A211 - - - - 9s mg3w Cf2e mf3s hg4s
A2111 - - - - - 10g Mb3e hb4s Mc3e hb3e hc3x
A21111 - - - - - - 10s ef4w De3e Df3x ee4s de6s
A211111 - - - - - - - 11g Ef5s Ha6e Ra4n Ra5n
A2111111 - - - - - - - - 11s de5s re8s re7s re6s
A2112 - - - - - 10g Ef5w Ee5s De3w Ee4s
A21121 - - - - - - 10s ef4w ee4w ed4w hb4n
A212 - - - - 9s mg3w De3n mf3w me3w
A2121 - - - - - 10g Ef5w De4w Ee5s Ee4s
A21211 - - - - - - 10s dd6w dc6s dc5s hg4s  
A2122 - - - - - 10g Ef5w Ee5w Ed5s Hh3w
 
A3 - - 8s mg4w Hg3n hh4s hh3w +/-
A31 - - - 9g Hg4e mf4e Ef5s De2n +/-
 
A4 - - 8s ee4w ed4w ec4e Mb4e +=
A41 - - - 9g Cc2n Rc1n Mc4w Ef5s/Rg5e +=
 
A5 - - 8s rh6s rg6e Rg5n mg4n +-
A51 - - - 9g Mb4s hb5s mg5s Ef5e +-
 
A6 - - 8s ee4w ed4w rh6s de6s
A61 - - - 9g Ef5s Ef4n mg4w Hg3n
A611 - - - - 9s hh4s hh3w dd6e de5s
A62 - - - 9g Ef5s Ef4n mg4w De2n
A621 - - - - 9s hh4w mf4w me4w md5n
A63 - - - 9g de5s Ef5w de4s Ee5s
A631 - - - - 9s mg4w Hg3n hh4s hh3w
A64  -  -  -  9g Ef5s Ef4n mg4w Rh2n
A641  -  -  -  -  9s dd6e de5s mf4e rb7s
A6411  -  -  -  -  -  10g Ef5s Hg3w mg4s Ef4e
A642  -  -  -  -  9s hh4w mf4w me4w md4n  
A6421  -  -  -  -  -  10g Ef5s Ef4n hg4w De2n
A64211  -  -  -  -  -  -  10s de5s hf4e md5w hb5w
 
B - 8g Mb3n Mb4n Mb5w hb6s
B1 - - 8s ee4w ed4w ec4w hb5n
B11 - - - 9g Ef5s Ef4n mg4w Hg3n
B111 - - - - 9s hh4s hh3w X X  
 
 
C - 8g Rg5e Rh2n Ra4n Mb3n
C1 - - 8s rg6s cf7e cg7s rf8s
C11 - - - 9g Hg3w Ef5s mg4s Ef4e
 
C2 - - 8s ee4w ed4w Mb4n ec4w
C21 - - - 9g Mb5e hb6s Ha6e Dd2n
C211 - - - - 9s eb4e ec4n Mc5e re8s
C2111 - - - - - 10g Dd2n Md5n Dd6n Dd4n
C21111 - - - - - - 10s de6s ec5n ec6e Md6e
C22  -  -  -  9g Mb5e hb6s Ha6e Ef5e
 
 
D - 8g Ra4n Mb4n Mb3n Ra3n
 
 
E - 8g Rh2n Rg5e Ra4n Dd2n
 
 
F  -  8g Rg5e Rh2n Rg1e Rh1n
« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2015, 4:47pm by deep_blue » IP Logged
Hippo
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #36 on: Oct 26th, 2015, 12:22pm »
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on Oct 25th, 2015, 4:25pm, deep_blue wrote:
BETA TREE
D - 8g Ra4n Mb4n Mb3n Ra3n

 
is invalid
 
on Oct 25th, 2015, 4:25pm, deep_blue wrote:
BETA TREE
A - 8g Mb3n Mb4n Mb5s hb6s (Mb4:h) +=

 
I am not afraid of tactical answers, but rh5 ewwx let silver in very fine position (maybe x=dd6s).
« Last Edit: Oct 26th, 2015, 12:29pm by Hippo » IP Logged

deep_blue
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #37 on: Oct 26th, 2015, 1:26pm »
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on Oct 26th, 2015, 12:22pm, Hippo wrote:

 
is invalid
True, sorry I was just copy pasting. though Mob will move now so it won't matter now.
Quote:

I am not afraid of tactical answers, but rh5 ewwx let silver in very fine position (maybe x=dd6s).

Check A6x lines.
« Last Edit: Oct 26th, 2015, 1:27pm by deep_blue » IP Logged
Hippo
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #38 on: Nov 1st, 2015, 6:13am »
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BTW: We have already played 2nd move what would be Haizhi pruned.
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half_integer
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Re: 2015 move 8
« Reply #39 on: Nov 11th, 2015, 7:56am »
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Is that true Hippo?  I only see one.  3g moved four pieces, but the d file dog step depended on the camel step.  8g was four independent steps, but I think a good argument can be made that this is one of the exceptions where a Haizhi move is still good (after all, he didn't find that good players NEVER played these moves).
 
Conversely, sharpvector has also been playing Haizhi pruned moves.  3s is an almost-hit, like our 3g.  4s and 5s were both four independent steps.  So on this metric, perhaps we are playing "better" than Sharp and lightvector  Smiley .
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