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deep_blue
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2015 Move 9g
« on: Nov 1st, 2015, 3:50pm »
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Sharp has moved:
« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2015, 3:59pm by deep_blue » IP Logged
half_integer
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #1 on: Nov 1st, 2015, 8:43pm »
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At first glance, the western pull-and-replace
     9g Mb4n Mb5s hb6s Ha6e
doesn't look promising with a response like  
     9s ee4w ed4w ec4n Mb4e
however we might play tactically for a camel exchange:
     10g Ef5w mg5w mf5s Ee5e
I don't think sharpvector would go for it immediately, probably responding something like
     10s Rg3s hh3w rc8w re8w
but, what is the true tactical outcome of such a line?  I haven't looked deeply enough yet.
 
An alternate 9s is
     9s ee4w ed4w Rh5s mg5e
what do we do in this case?  Pulling the b7 rabbit leaves our horse almost trapped.  Bringing the elephant to c6:
     10g Ef5w Ee5w dd6n Ed5n
has some interesting possibilities around c6, but I expect that silver can make too strong threats in the east such as
     10s mh5w Hg4w mg5s ec4n
 
As a longer term concern, if we can play for a camel trade, should we?  I thought the commentary during the challenge was that sharp seemed to be less strong after a trade, that it didn't seem to know as well how to use its pieces when the counts had changed.
 
My first instinctive move is  
     9g Hg4e mg5s Ef5e X
but I'm not sure how it plays out.  I expect the g3 rabbit would be pushed onto the trap to prevent an immediate capture, and silver does have a good number of pieces available to turn it into an attack on f3.
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #2 on: Nov 2nd, 2015, 2:46am »
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9g: Rg3w Rf3n Hg4s Rf4e would allow us to hold g3 for now, but with 9s: Rg4w mg5s I suspect the rabbit will just become a liability.
 
Flipping the camel to g6 would slow down the attack on f3, but would allow something like 9s: ee4w ed4w Mb4n ec4w after which we would no longer be in a position to make threats in the east to counter silvers in the west. Alternatively it would give silver the option of sending the camel east lto take the a6 horse hostage.
 
Quote:
At first glance, the western pull-and-replace
     9g Mb4n Mb5s hb6s Ha6e
doesn't look promising with a response like  
     9s ee4w ed4w ec4n Mb4e
however we might play tactically for a camel exchange:
     10g Ef5w mg5w mf5s Ee5e
I don't think sharpvector would go for it immediately, probably responding something like
     10s Rg3s hh3w rc8w re8w
but, what is the true tactical outcome of such a line?  I haven't looked deeply enough yet.

 
I agree this looks bad. 10s could be something like: Rg3e hh3e ra7s ra8s. If silver toook the horse on 10s instead it looks like silver would actually gain the horse.
 
As we don't appear to have an obkvious way of stopping the attack in the east I think we are going to need to make some counter move in the west though. What about pulling the horse to the south instead with 9g: Mb4n Mb5s hb6s X ?
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Hippo
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #3 on: Nov 2nd, 2015, 1:24pm »
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on Nov 2nd, 2015, 2:46am, Hufflepup wrote:
9g: Rg3w Rf3n Hg4s Rf4e would allow us to hold g3 for now, but with 9s: Rg4w mg5s I suspect the rabbit will just become a liability.

 
I rather like 9g Rg4 Hg3.
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #4 on: Nov 3rd, 2015, 1:39am »
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I rather like 9g Rg4 Hg3.

 
Whilst this would hold g3 for now it would still allow silver to take f2 with hh3s hh2w Cf3n hg2w.
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ikalyoncu
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #5 on: Nov 3rd, 2015, 9:05am »
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Couple of moves ago we considered occupying a6 with a Horse while denying a hh3 a slight advantage for us. Now that this advantage is nullified, we should harvest the other positional advantages we acquired in the meantime. We still have the better piece alignment and we have advanced rabbits on both sides. There doesn't seem to be a good way of denying both g3 and f2 to the silver horse. Pulling the silver horse south with 9g Mb4n Mb5s hb6s xxx looks like the best option to me, and the last step should be something other than Ha6e (I don't like the position after 9s ee4wwn Mb4e). I think it's extremely difficult to foresee what fourth step would be most useful to us. De2n could gain us some tempo for the fight around f3.
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Hippo
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #6 on: Nov 3rd, 2015, 12:14pm »
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on Nov 3rd, 2015, 1:39am, Hufflepup wrote:

 
Whilst this would hold g3 for now it would still allow silver to take f2 with hh3s hh2w Cf3n hg2w.

 
horse f2 seems to be smaller problem than frozen Horse on g4.
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SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #7 on: Nov 4th, 2015, 5:34pm »
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Our advanced rabbits aren't immediately under threat of capture and so should be a net positive for now, but the silver elephant is able to keep our M+H attack from starting while supporting the east and the h3 horse can now make progress on its own, while our a6 horse still needs the camel to do anything.
 
Pulling the b6 horse without the Hb6 step is an interesting idea to keep the elephant from coming over, although it may be playing into silver's hands in terms of allowing development.
 
Pushing the silver camel into g4 seems better if we don't allow the silver horse into f2, so perhaps 9g Hh4 E:Mg4 g2 is worth considering.  Mb5 may be another 4th step to consider.
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Algorias
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #8 on: Nov 5th, 2015, 4:37am »
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What about just taking a single step with our camel? Could be combined with the camel push in the east
 
9g: Mb4n Hg4e mg5s Ef5e.
 
I don't think the lone silver elephant can threaten that configuration around C6, at least not in the short term:
 
9s: Rg3w hh3w ee4w ed4w
10g: Mb5e hb6s Ha6e Rf3w
 
(or variations thereof)
 
If silver does nothing to stop us in the east, we would be threatening a double pull of the horse. If the elephant does switch wings, we might have a tempo advantage in a MH / mh trade.
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ikalyoncu
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #9 on: Nov 5th, 2015, 10:44am »
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If we will go for 9g Hg4e mg5s Ef5e Rg1n, then we should prepare something for 9s ee4e de6s de5s de4s. The dog advance seems premature but it is still irritating.
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SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #10 on: Nov 5th, 2015, 2:35pm »
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On that note, I'm not sure why we should play Hh4.  It just seems to put our horse out of play.  Perhaps 9g Hf3 E:Mg4 is another option, as it also keeps the silver horse out of f2 for the time being.
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half_integer
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #11 on: Nov 5th, 2015, 5:55pm »
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I was coming to say the same thing, SilverMitt.  Hf4 E:Mg4 g2 does not have an immediate weakness; the horse cannot be captured without silver suffering a greater loss, and for some responses there is the chance of the horse escaping to join the western attack.  H:Rf3 M:Hf5 is probably the most annoying response but we can avoid immediate loss by making counterthreats, and it may result in our advancing the horse.
 
If that move proves unsatisfactory, Hf3 E:Mg4 is another possibility which keeps the silver horse out of f2.  I'm not sure which of the responses would be best for silver.
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #12 on: Nov 6th, 2015, 2:32pm »
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My concern with moves like Hf4 E:Mg4 g2, is that whilst they slow Sharp down, and don't immediately lead to any major problems they don't seem to accomplish anything for us either, allowing Sharp to gradually build up a big advantage.
 
Playing Mb4n Mb5s hb6s without the Ha6e step allows defences like 9s: rb6s hb5e hc5n X which defeats the point of the horse pull.
 
9g: Mb4n Mb5s hb6s Ha6e looks good to me:
Some possible lines:
 
9s: hh3s hh2w Cf2n hg2w
10g: Cf3w Mb4s hb5s X gives us good capture threats in both home traps.
 
9s: ee4w ed4w Rg2w hh3w
10g: Rf3w Dd2n Dd3n Hb6w Leaves us with the best threats
 
9s: ee4w ed4w ec4n Mb4e
10g: Hb6w Dd2n Dd3n  Mc4w is more complicated but looks OK for us.
11s: ec5n ec6w hb5e hc5e
11g: Hg4e mg5s Ef5e Mb4s
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ikalyoncu
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #13 on: Nov 6th, 2015, 10:35pm »
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on Nov 6th, 2015, 2:32pm, Hufflepup wrote:

Playing Mb4n Mb5s hb6s without the Ha6e step allows defences like 9s: rb6s hb5e hc5n X which defeats the point of the horse pull.

 
I disagree that the point of our horse pull is defeated. Our Horse gets access to b6 square.
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ikalyoncu
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Re: 2015 Move 9g
« Reply #14 on: Nov 6th, 2015, 10:46pm »
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on Nov 6th, 2015, 2:32pm, Hufflepup wrote:

9s: ee4w ed4w ec4n Mb4e
10g: Hb6w Dd2n Dd3n  Mc4w is more complicated but looks OK for us.
11s: ec5n ec6w hb5e hc5e
11g: Hg4e mg5s Ef5e Mb4s

 
If silver goes 10s hb5n ec5s Dd4n ec4e, we don't achieve anything over our current position. On the contrary, we have a threatened dog and a weakened trap. This variation doesn't seem OK to me.
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