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Topic: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest (Read 22548 times) |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #105 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 4:49pm » |
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on Sep 19th, 2010, 4:03pm, rbarreira wrote:| Wow, jdb is now in fourth place, well done! |
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Wow, only 80 Elo from the top of the latest standings. Extremely impressive!
I just noticed that this contest is substantially longer than the previous one. There are more than months two months remaining, not just one as I previously thought. I wonder how many hundreds of Elo points the ratings will advance between now and then.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #106 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 5:03pm » |
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on Sep 19th, 2010, 4:44pm, Fritzlein wrote:| Wow, that is tricky. I have been babbling about how "second strike" is not a good idea, but here it seems whoever tries to take one of the central 14's loses to player who passes turn one for an all-out second strike on turn two. One turn waiting plus one turn extra distance means the second strike of 105 arrives on turn 18. First-strike forces are 105 - 14 + 2*5 growth, i.e. a loss. Or am I figuring that incorrectly? My first instinct was to send all 100 to the nearer central 14, but that appears not to work. |
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Oh, wait, I think I short-changed us on map 77. If we send 100 to the nearer central 14 on turn one, and the opponent counter-strikes with 105 on turn two, we can reinforce with 10 on turn three, holding the planet. 100-14+10+2*5 > 105.
[EDIT]
Oh, but that fails to an opponent who launches a psychic conter-strike of 100 on turn one. This is going to get game-theoretical; I had better leave it to Hippo. 
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| « Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2010, 5:16pm by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #107 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 5:20pm » |
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This game is a humorous victory for jdb based on accurate calculation of free ships.
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Hippo
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #108 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 5:23pm » |
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on Sep 19th, 2010, 5:03pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Oh, wait, I think I short-changed us on map 77. If we send 100 to the nearer central 14 on turn one, and the opponent counter-strikes with 105 on turn two, we can reinforce with 10 on turn three, holding the planet. 100-14+10+2*5 > 105.
[EDIT]
Oh, but that fails to an opponent who launches a psychic conter-strike of 100 on turn one. This is going to get game-theoretical; I had better leave it to Hippo. |
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I would lose to doing nothing not with 100 charge but with 48+15 charge ... . (r-s-p again )
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jdb
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #109 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 5:47pm » |
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Quote:http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=48552
2nd turn bug you don't consider ships on air to lend?
If trying to capture the central planet ... all forces should be concentrated there. |
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I am not sure what happened here. Thanks for pointing this out.
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jdb
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #110 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 6:02pm » |
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on Sep 19th, 2010, 5:23pm, Hippo wrote:
I would lose to doing nothing not with 100 charge but with 48+15 charge ... . (r-s-p again ) |
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It is 16 steps from the home planet to the 14 planet.
It is 13 steps from the home planet to the 48 planet.
It is 3 steps from the 48 planet to the 14 planet.
The 48 planet can be captured and held from any attack by sending 78 ships.
Could the correct move be to send everything to the 48 planet on move 1?
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Hippo
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #111 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 6:23pm » |
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on Sep 19th, 2010, 6:02pm, jdb wrote:
It is 16 steps from the home planet to the 14 planet.
It is 13 steps from the home planet to the 48 planet.
It is 3 steps from the 48 planet to the 14 planet.
The 48 planet can be captured and held from any attack by sending 78 ships.
Could the correct move be to send everything to the 48 planet on move 1? |
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Oh yes in that case it's even better ... you lose nothing by going through 48. And you gain flexibility.
Even more, I would continue with flow through 48 to 14 (amount to win the fight) ... and according to the game state to the opposite 14 (may be through the planet mentioned earlier).
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| « Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2010, 6:26pm by Hippo » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #112 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 6:35pm » |
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on Sep 19th, 2010, 6:23pm, Hippo wrote:| Oh yes in that case it's even better ... you lose nothing by going through 48. And you gain flexibility. |
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Well, you lose 48 ships so you don't have enough left to win the fight for the better planet. Can't the other guy wait a turn to see your opening move and then safely take the higher-growth central planet on your side?
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Fritzlein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #113 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 6:59pm » |
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on Sep 19th, 2010, 4:49pm, Fritzlein wrote:| Wow, only 80 Elo from the top of the latest standings. Extremely impressive! |
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OK, I peeked in on the standings again, and jdb now leads outright. Woohoo!
The result isn't just from picking on weaklings; it includes three straight wins over dhartmei. This one particularly bowls me over because it was not a win by speedier colonization plus good defense. On the contrary it was a second-strike win after dhartmei, on turn 25, decided to invest 76 troops for an extra growth rate of one. Is that just the rage-bot code doing the fighting, jdb, or did you come up with the attack strategy yourself? It is a type of win I haven't even contemplated.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #114 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 7:15pm » |
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One of jdb's few recent losses was this game. The key point of the opening was Blue taking both central 20's. Red correctly took back the near one, but failed to hold it even though the troops were available. Fine strategy but poor tactics. Winning this battle would have won the war.
This looks like a relatively easy tactical bug to quash. Something about the current reinforcement strategy must not allow a troop request from a planet currently controlled by the enemy, although it should allow a reinforcement request if the friendly ships in the air are sufficient to conquer it.
A perhaps slightly harder bug to quash, but definitely superior move, would have been for Red to hold back troops from colonizing in order to counterstrike the nearer central 20 on the soonest turn possible. But allocating troops for future purposes is probably a bigger code add. Good thing there are 70 contest days left! 
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| « Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2010, 7:26pm by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #115 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 8:02pm » |
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It seems that Red in this game (tilaiti.2) is hard-coded to pass the first turn, regardless of the map, to see what the opponent does. I looked at its ten most recent games, and it passed the first turn every time. Furthermore, it may be that the bots locutus0 and locutus0w are identical bots except that locutus0w passes the first turn. It must be worth something, because locutus0w is rated 40 points higher. At the very least, passing the first turn is an interesting insight into how some people are viewing opportunity cost; they would rather be a full turn behind in the colonization race than commit too soon.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2010, 8:20pm by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #116 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 8:07pm » |
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Losing the big central planet in this game loses the war. It could only be saved by some sort of preemptive defense or by troop centralization. The latter is less desirable way to achieve the same end, because it is less precise than a tactical calculation of what troops are required for defense.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2010, 8:22pm by Fritzlein » |
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Nombril
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #117 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 9:01pm » |
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on Sep 19th, 2010, 8:02pm, Fritzlein wrote:| It must be worth something, because locutus0w is rated 40 points higher. |
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I'll admit I haven't read the rules, just tried the flash game and am reading the forum thread.... but this seems a bit crazy to me - can't you redirect ships in the air if what your opponent does on turn 1 changes what you want to do? Maybe instead of waiting a turn, you could get this same advantage by somehow reevaluating on turn 2?
A related thought - if bots are reacting to opponents actions, is there any value in launching 100% ships on turn 1 somewhere crazy, with the intent to turn back or to a different direction? Or would this "fake out" not work on better bots?
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Sconibulus
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #118 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 9:25pm » |
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As far as I can tell, a ship once launched cannot change its course until it reaches a planet. Maybe it's too expensive to outfit them with a FTL radio. : () )
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Fritzlein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #119 on: Sep 19th, 2010, 9:49pm » |
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on Sep 19th, 2010, 9:25pm, Sconibulus wrote:| As far as I can tell, a ship once launched cannot change its course until it reaches a planet. |
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That's right. Once your fleets are launched they are in hyperspace, where they have neither position nor direction. They wink out of existence when they set out, and wink back into existence some time later at their destination.
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