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   Author  Topic: Wiki energy. revival.  (Read 7010 times)
froody
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Wiki energy. revival.
« on: Feb 21st, 2013, 11:12am »
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Let's put some love into the wiki!
 
Pages that need work:  
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Bot_List
 
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide_to_the_Arima a_gameroom
 
2013 WC game reports.. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2013_World_Championship
 
(people are talking about the games in the chatroom, so why not just dump that into a wiki page? Something is better than nothing. Then others will come and edit edit edit)
 
User's personal pages. How did you find Arimaa? Which other games do you like? etc. Comic back-story is good, too Smiley
 
Don't be afraid to add things or make changes. We can always rollback. I think it's better to have something with mistakes than nothing at all.
 
If you don't have a wiki account; I can make you one. Send me a message here with your email. You'll get an email asking you to set a password, then you're good to go. (Omar had to turn off the public account gen page cos spammers were using it). (Or if you prefer; mail Omar as per http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Create_Account . But this might take longer!)
 
If we don't get 3 new accounts within 48h, I'll set fire to an Arimaa rabbit. Do it for Arimaa! Do it for the rabbits!
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supersamu
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #1 on: Feb 21st, 2013, 11:44am »
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I think it´s true that it would be nice to have more information on the wiki on strategy and tactics. But it certainly is no easy task to expand it while simultaneously keeping the quality of the written work the same
 
I will help with some of the game reports, I just wonder how important these are. Who is the target audience of a written game report and how do I write one?  
When researching past Arimaa championships, I usually go to
Games-> Event games, and not to the wiki page.
 
I still think that a personal page about a user on a wiki is somewhat out of place. In my opinion, the Forum would be a better place for that.
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froody
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #2 on: Feb 21st, 2013, 1:44pm »
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on Feb 21st, 2013, 11:44am, supersamu wrote:
I think it´s true that it would be nice to have more information on the wiki on strategy and tactics. But it certainly is no easy task to expand it while simultaneously keeping the quality of the written work the same

 
Note: there is also the wiki book on wikibooks.org: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Arimaa  
 
I think the wiki can work by getting little pieces at a time, then improving Quality.
 
Quote:

I will help with some of the game reports, I just wonder how important these are. Who is the target audience of a written game report and how do I write one?  
When researching past Arimaa championships, I usually go to
Games-> Event games, and not to the wiki page.

 
I think they're important. I think they should start with a simple overview of the game, then go into more and more depth (as much as possible! Make new pages for deeper analysis if you have a lot). Then beginners can stop reading if/when they feel it's too deep. Also need a link to the commentary.  
 
Even dumping the chat from the chatroom on a page about a game is better than nothing. Maybe we should do that as well, but on a separate page?
 
The wiki should be better than Games-> Event games. More editors.
 
See http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2012_World_Championship for good examples.
 
Quote:

I still think that a personal page about a user on a wiki is somewhat out of place. In my opinion, the Forum would be a better place for that.

 
I think it helps build the community and make it seem friendly/interesting/fun. People don't browse the forums in the same way. And the wiki is better to edit/update. Also, it doesn't do any harm...? (If you don't care about people, don't click their link.)
 
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Trick
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #3 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 3:03am »
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I'll take an account, though I can't promise to add anything useful about strategy having only just started playing.
 
My thoughts:
 
1) Player profiles would be good so long as there is a separate section for them. (Having never edited a wiki, I'm not 100% sure how they're set up.)
 
2) I could write a page or two about how players can help with the marketing. At the moment, the marketing for this game is terrible. It's essentially marketed toward research computer scientists. Not a bad crowd as far as I'm concerned, however, if we want a next generation of players Arimaa really needs to get marketed toward kids.
 
I just wrote in another post to rabbit that I never learned to play chess from family members, I learned to play because there was a chess board in every classroom in our elementary school.
 
Just like Christian churches and the cigarette companies, we need to get them while they're young.   Wink
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Trick
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #4 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 3:09am »
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Oh yeah, and please don't just dump chat logs into the wiki.  Undecided
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froody
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #5 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 4:43am »
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on Feb 22nd, 2013, 3:09am, Trick wrote:
Oh yeah, and please don't just dump chat logs into the wiki.  Undecided

 
For what reason? They're public anyway. Drown in information? I can swim! If they go on a separate page, isn't it OK? *shrug*
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froody
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #6 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 4:49am »
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on Feb 22nd, 2013, 3:03am, Trick wrote:

Just like Christian churches and the cigarette companies, we need to get them while they're young.   Wink

 
Yup. Best thing would be to setup Arimaa clubs in schools, but that's not easy.
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #7 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 8:58am »
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No definitely not!
 
The biggest barrier to entry is the cost of the game board and pieces. The chess sets we used in elementary school cost $3-$5 at any department store. The cheapest Arimaa set I have seen is the $40 set marked down to $25.
 
It's a nice set. I bought one. But that's way too expensive to get me to donate more than one, maybe two, to my local school.
 
I know you CAN use a chess set to play Arimaa, but in terms of marketing I think the community should avoid that, and all similar comparisons to chess because chess has an intellectual stigma attached to it. Granted, that stigma is what attracted me to chess and probably many people who visit this message board, however, if you want to get as many people to try Arimaa as possible the community should focus on its simplicity more than anything else.
 
The masses like simple!   Wink
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Fritzlein
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #8 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:00am »
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on Feb 22nd, 2013, 4:43am, froody wrote:
For what reason? They're public anyway. Drown in information? I can swim! If they go on a separate page, isn't it OK? *shrug*

Dumping chat logs sends the message from the author to the reader, "I don't respect your time.  I'm willing to post garbage and make you figure out that it is garbage."  I understand that you personally might feel differently; perhaps you don't mind if someone spews a stream of useless stuff at you as long as it occasionally contains something of interest.  And in brainstorming sessions or chat rooms it is essential to have exactly that attitude.  You don't want to squelch creativity by premature evaluation; let the ideas flow freely regardless of quality!
 
I think, however, that I speak for the majority in saying that event reporting should have a different standard than chat.  Expectations are different for a wiki article than for a chat log.   There is a minimum level of quality of text below which I would rather have no article, because a blank article at least doesn't waste my time and draw me in with an empty promise of something interesting.  You could claim that when you create an article you don't promise anyone anything, but according to popular expectation, you actually do.
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Trick
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #9 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:19am »
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Thank you Fritzlein. I was just coming back to address the chat log idea.
 
You stated it more direct and eloquently than the sports metaphor I was thinking!   Cool
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froody
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #10 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:46am »
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on Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:00am, Fritzlein wrote:

Dumping chat logs sends the message from the author to the reader, "I don't respect your time.  I'm willing to post garbage and make you figure out that it is garbage."  I understand that you personally might feel differently; perhaps you don't mind if someone spews a stream of useless stuff at you as long as it occasionally contains something of interest.  And in brainstorming sessions or chat rooms it is essential to have exactly that attitude.  You don't want to squelch creativity by premature evaluation; let the ideas flow freely regardless of quality!
 
I think, however, that I speak for the majority in saying that event reporting should have a different standard than chat.  Expectations are different for a wiki article than for a chat log.   There is a minimum level of quality of text below which I would rather have no article, because a blank article at least doesn't waste my time and draw me in with an empty promise of something interesting.  You could claim that when you create an article you don't promise anyone anything, but according to popular expectation, you actually do.

 
OK, so we won't do it.
 
But yeah, I think something is always better than nothing. Give people the choice. If you want to read the chat about this game, click here, if you don't, don't. blah blah. And the chat is not garbage! The good ones tell a story, and contain move suggestions etc etc. (and I'm talking about dumping only the bits that concern the game). Now I've convinced myself it's a great idea! But you don't agree. So fine, we won't do it! Unless I convinced you. Did I convince you? I'll take no answer as a no Smiley
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froody
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #11 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:56am »
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on Feb 22nd, 2013, 8:58am, Trick wrote:
No definitely not!
 
The biggest barrier to entry is the cost of the game board and pieces. The chess sets we used in elementary school cost $3-$5 at any department store. The cheapest Arimaa set I have seen is the $40 set marked down to $25.
 
It's a nice set. I bought one. But that's way too expensive to get me to donate more than one, maybe two, to my local school.
 
I know you CAN use a chess set to play Arimaa, but in terms of marketing I think the community should avoid that, and all similar comparisons to chess because chess has an intellectual stigma attached to it. Granted, that stigma is what attracted me to chess and probably many people who visit this message board, however, if you want to get as many people to try Arimaa as possible the community should focus on its simplicity more than anything else.
 
The masses like simple!   Wink

 
I don't agree about the Arimaa sets. Chess sets are fine. Who cares if a dog looks like a dog? (But maybe I don't understand 'normal' people very well!). If it's a choice between playing Arimaa on a chess set, and not playing Arimaa...
 
And I don't get your stigma point. If you hate the idea of chess you probably hate all abstract strategy games. I just see Arimaa as Chess++. Anyway.
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #12 on: Feb 22nd, 2013, 2:02pm »
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I certainly don't hate chess, but that doesn't mean that I can't look objectively at the way the average person sees the game . Perhaps, it's just been my experience, but I have seen more people than not avoid chess because they think it's more sophisticated than they can handle.
 
In truth, they're right! Consider the first handful of games you played. Your opponent could give you a king, bishop and rook against their king and knight and you probably weren't sophisticated enough to force a mate. A beginner has no such problems like this in Arimaa. Orchestrating pieces that all move differently and coordinating an attack to trap the opponent's king is hard compared to taking a game where all the pieces essentially move the same and racing one of them to the other side.
 
On the surface, it's like comparing Lacrosse to the 100 meter dash. After they play for a while you can hit them with the deeper theory.  Wink
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Fritzlein
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #13 on: Feb 23rd, 2013, 9:01am »
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on Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:46am, froody wrote:
(and I'm talking about dumping only the bits that concern the game)

Editing down to only the bits that concern the game is already a significant improvement to quality...
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supersamu
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Re: Wiki energy. revival.
« Reply #14 on: Feb 23rd, 2013, 9:54am »
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If this is going to be the thread where we will dicuss changes on the wiki, I suggest that you use a different name for the subject, like "Changes on the ArimaaWiki and the WikiBook - Community help appreciated". I think that would attract more Forum users. You could edit your first post to have several sections:
 
- Pages that need editing:
(I would like if you add these two )  
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide_to_the_Arima a_gameroom
 
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Why_we_love_Arimaa
 
-What you can do:
An inspirational text about everyone being able to participate, nobody having to worry about making mistakes and that even beginners can write good texts. After that some Info on how to create a wiki account.
 
-Long-term-projects (and their advancement)
Personally, I think we can write a lot more about strategical and tactical stuff not only in the wiki, but also in the wikibook.
We could have some pages about camel hostages, E+H-attacks, elephant blockades, EHH-Setups and so on.  
 
I think these three sections would be a good start.
I also think that an important part is that you write "done!(maybe you can also write by whom)" after an article has been rewritten or written. I imagine something like this:
 
Pages that need editing:
- ...
- ...
- http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Guide_to_the_Arima a_gameroom done by froody!
- ...
- ...
 
 I think that would be a motivational boost. Will you be active enough to edit your first post every two weeks or so? I know that you have written all of this, but I think if you would organize your first post better, people will be more willing to read what you wrote.  
Another idea that comes to my mind is a fourth section where all the "completed" wiki pages are that don´t need editing any more. You could also assign priorities to the soon-to-be-edited pages. Maybe moving the motivational section to the top is better as well. Please consider these suggestions. I don´t want to dictate what you have to do, just remember that we are in the same boat.
 
Note: I don´t want to express with my post that the community has done so little on the wiki, on the contrary,  I think that the Arimaawiki is more awesome than one could expect from such a small community.  
Edit2: Maybe you can use this picture as well, froody:
http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3175/qkcna5dd_jpg.htm
« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2013, 10:28am by supersamu » IP Logged

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