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Topic: Announce Bot Bashing Record (Read 31521 times) |
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mistre
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #135 on: Oct 10th, 2011, 9:41am » |
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I kept it up for a while, but I don't have any interest in doing so anymore. If anyone is interested in updating the page, the password is wiki123.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #136 on: Oct 10th, 2011, 11:53am » |
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The records ought to be maintained by someone who has an active interest in setting botbashing records himself. For my part, I find the art of Arimaa per se to be more rewarding and engaging than the art of exploiting bot weaknesses. In the long run, opponents that don't change and adapt are bound to be less entertaining than humans who do. Perhaps mistre "graduated" from botbashing by getting too good at Arimaa. But in the short run it can be a lot of fun to try to win ever more gloriously against a fixed opponent. Someone who digs it could do the community a fine service by bringing the botbashing page up to date and maintaining it actively.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 10th, 2011, 11:55am by Fritzlein » |
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mistre
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #137 on: Oct 11th, 2011, 8:35am » |
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on Oct 10th, 2011, 11:53am, Fritzlein wrote:| Perhaps mistre "graduated" from botbashing by getting too good at Arimaa. |
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Yes, I would say that comment was fairly accurate. Other reasons I lost interest were because I felt like I accomplished everything I wanted to with bot bashing and I left the game for a while completely to take a break. Since starting back up again, my focus and interest has been in other areas.
It would be great to see some sort of automated record keeping process for bot bashing, but barring that, it would be good for Arimaa if some one would like to step in and keep the records up to date. There is a whole mess of new bots that don't even have records yet 
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schr66
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Arimaa player #7582
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #138 on: May 18th, 2012, 3:38pm » |
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I have stepped in now to maintain the botbashing records for a while.  Actually I have written a program that generates the records automatically out of the game archives, and also prints the new ones. Using this, many old and new records have been found. The tables are now quite long because all bots available to play are listed.
I was also able to improve some records myself. During these attempts I found out that some older records are not reproducible, seemingly because these bots now run on faster hardware than before. Of course also against bots which greatly vary the setup position the records are hardly reproducible.
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ocmiente
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #139 on: May 18th, 2012, 4:27pm » |
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Thanks for updating the records.
Can you add a table for "Fastest Win by Elimination"?
Does your program detect no-capture immobilization games yet? The reason I ask is that at least one game is missing from that list.
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ginrunner
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #141 on: May 18th, 2012, 10:24pm » |
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I think i have 1 or 2 no capture immobilization somewhere
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schr66
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #142 on: May 20th, 2012, 3:49pm » |
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@ocmiente: I already expected that your wishes would come up. But I wanted to wait for the requests. Actually for the pleasure of many I have fulfilled both wishes today. 
I have included all empty cells in all three tables for "Fastest Win", so you may now compete in filling the gaps.
I managed to bash GnoBot2010P1 two times today, helped by being very lucky that the bot enabled me to capture its elephant!
Generating the complete list of no-capture immobilizations with the help of my computer program revealed a big surprise: 73 games were found, but only 30 were listed on the old page. Ignoring 3 games (2 against developer bots and 1 achieved by copying all moves from another record game) there are now 70 games listed. These have been played by 23 different people (excluding one against a developer bot).
@browni3141, @ginrunner: now you will find all your records in the updated web page.
!!!!!! It is no longer necessary to post records here, except records involving handicaps !!!!!!
But if I find time, I will manage to meet this challenge too. It needs just a bit more sophisticated programming.
It would be possible even now to generate a list of fastest win by goal without any capture by either side. Should I add this list to the bot bashers page?
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2012, 8:10am by schr66 » |
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browni3141
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #143 on: May 20th, 2012, 4:54pm » |
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Quote:| It would be possible even now to generate a list of fastest win by goal without any capture by either side. Should I add this list to the bot bashers page? |
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Maybe if we're adding so much stuff it should be organized on seperate pages? The bot bashers page is getting quite big.
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| « Last Edit: May 20th, 2012, 4:58pm by browni3141 » |
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ocmiente
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #144 on: May 20th, 2012, 11:25pm » |
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Thanks for all the work you did to update this!
on May 20th, 2012, 3:49pm, schr66 wrote:
It would be possible even now to generate a list of fastest win by goal without any capture by either side. Should I add this list to the bot bashers page? |
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Yes, please. It did occur to me to ask earlier, but I didn't want to ask for too much
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mistre
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #145 on: May 21st, 2012, 8:56am » |
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Excellent schr66!
I really appreciate you taking this on and improving it. Having a computer program automatically generate records is a very welcome addition.
A few questions - how often are you planning on running the program? Weekly? Bi-Weekly? Monthly? It would be nice to run it on a set schedule and then be able to generate a list of new records and post to this page so everyone can see which records have been beaten each time the program is run.
Also, can you run a query for all games that were won by elimination with only opponents rabbits captured and no other opponent pieces? I did this a few times and I am not sure if anyone else has or has even tried to. I would call it "Win by Elimination, rabbits-only".
Finally, I agree that the page is getting quite lengthy - It would be neat to see sub-pages as tabs within the main page but I am not sure the wiki supports that format.
Once again, thanks for taking this on and keep up the good work!
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schr66
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #146 on: May 24th, 2012, 7:19am » |
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@ocmiente
I have now added the category "FASTEST WIN BY GOAL WITHOUT CAPTURE" to the Bot Bashers page. This table contains many empty places yet, so this is an opportunity even for weaker players to set new records here.
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A few questions - how often are you planning on running the program? Weekly? Bi-Weekly? Monthly? It would be nice to run it on a set schedule and then be able to generate a list of new records and post to this page so everyone can see which records have been beaten each time the program is run.
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I may run the program about bi-weekly. It will repeatedly cost some time though, so I am thinking about possibilites to automatize the process even more. With the help of omar this should be possible.
Concerning the list of changes I think this is not necessary because one can easily see these using the View History tab and the Compare selected revisions button of the Wiki.
This keeps the forum topic cleaner as well.
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Also, can you run a query for all games that were won by elimination with only opponents rabbits captured and no other opponent pieces? I did this a few times and I am not sure if anyone else has or has even tried to. I would call it "Win by Elimination, rabbits-only".
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Well, this is a very special wish. Do other people too have interest in this? Also it is not so easy to program. So, maybe later.
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Finally, I agree that the page is getting quite lengthy - It would be neat to see sub-pages as tabs within the main page but I am not sure the wiki supports that format.
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I agree but I don't know either how to do that. I am no expert in wikimedia. Any help would be appreciated here.
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| « Last Edit: May 24th, 2012, 7:22am by schr66 » |
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schr66
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #147 on: May 26th, 2012, 8:08am » |
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Now I have managed to generate all handicap games out of the game archives by my program. I have also updated the table in section "LARGEST HANDICAP WIN". The old table contained 29 bots and only 6 players. The new table contains 61 bots and 23 players. After reading the discussion about "handicap order - what beats what?" in this forum I decided to list two records for 10 of the bots.
I found 3 cases where the old record was not correct, because an older one was better but not known: both records against Clueless2006P2 (also the only ones with all rabbits sacrificed) and the record by 99of9 against Arimaazilla. On the other side, NO record of the old table was improved by a later one. So, the bot bashers did a very good job against the older bots, especially Arimabuff.
I also found two more handicap no-capture immobilizations.
Now finally ALL records listed on the bot bashers page have been updated and are complete because all have been generated automatically. And it is easy to update them regularly using my software. Phew! 
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mistre
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #148 on: May 26th, 2012, 10:05am » |
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Wow, lots of handicap records are available for the taking. Maybe this will coax Arimabuff out of retirement!
One minor issue with the page... I realize that you ordered the bots in alphabetical order to make sure that you didn't miss any, but in most cases it makes sense to order them in other ways - either by grouping bots by speeds, fewest moves to most moves, largest handicap to smallest handicap, etc.
Perhaps, the bot bashers page or pages (if split into multiples) should be housed on the main site and not in the wiki if this gives us more flexibility on how to design it. Or even it's own website!
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2012, 10:12am by mistre » |
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browni3141
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Arimaa player #7014
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Re: Announce Bot Bashing Record
« Reply #149 on: May 26th, 2012, 8:42pm » |
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I just beat some of Arimaabuff's old records. Maybe he will want to try and get them back  . Many of the old records are very solid, but several probably would be beaten easily. The lightning version of bomb didn't even have a handicap record for gold, and I'm assuming it was put up in 2005! I went ahead and took that one.
Edit: There are still developer bot records on the page. Including in the No capture immobilization section where you specifically say that no developer bots are listed. While it's interesting to see those records, and I have three handicap records against weak developer bots, I'm not sure that they should be there.
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2012, 9:09pm by browni3141 » |
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