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Arimaa Forum Move 14


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   Move 14
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   Author  Topic: Move 14  (Read 2612 times)
UruramTururam
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #15 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 2:49am »
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I am not too good in calculate moves (that's why I'm a horrible checkers player)... I just feel some uncertainties in this position. Note that the latest C&G turn was not covered by the move-by move analysis it but could be predicted heuristically from the "try to keep your elephant centered and mobile" principle.
 
For the next gold move:  
Perhaps something like Db4w Da6e ra4s ... (Ec5w or something else)
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #16 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 7:38am »
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I looked at md5w versus md5n in combination with ec4e Hc3n.  I am persuaded that our camel is not in danger on c5 due to the proximity of our h4 rabbit and our h which we could move to h5 or b6.  A c5 camel could make mischief with gold's c3 area pieces, so it seems a better place to be than d6.  This commits us for a while to maintaining pressure on the c3 area.
 
The fourth move would be ha6s or ha6e.  I don't expect to pull gold's dog soon, if at all, and we might not pull the horse.  We're more likely to have the E come back to the west side and end up on a square like c5.  In that case we may want to retreat our camel and a horse on a5 is better for this, allowing the camel to b6.  And with that, we would be able to continue threatening the h5 rabbit.
 
So I am now supporting 14b ec4e Hc3n md5w ha6s.
 
I'm starting the vote now, but I might not actually vote until tomorrow to allow some final comments to get consediration.
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mdk
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #17 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 4:26pm »
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on Oct 3rd, 2007, 7:38am, RonWeasley wrote:
I looked at md5w versus md5n in combination with ec4e Hc3n.  I am persuaded that our camel is not in danger on c5 due to the proximity of our h4 rabbit and our h which we could move to h5 or b6.  A c5 camel could make mischief with gold's c3 area pieces, so it seems a better place to be than d6.  This commits us for a while to maintaining pressure on the c3 area.
 
The fourth move would be ha6s or ha6e.  I don't expect to pull gold's dog soon, if at all, and we might not pull the horse.  We're more likely to have the E come back to the west side and end up on a square like c5.  In that case we may want to retreat our camel and a horse on a5 is better for this, allowing the camel to b6.  And with that, we would be able to continue threatening the h5 rabbit.
 
So I am now supporting 14b ec4e Hc3n md5w ha6s.
 
I'm starting the vote now, but I might not actually vote until tomorrow to allow some final comments to get consediration.

 
After looking at the position a bit more I am now supporting 14b ec4e Hc3n md5w ha6s as well.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #18 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 9:58pm »
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on Oct 3rd, 2007, 4:26pm, mdk wrote:
After looking at the position a bit more I am now supporting 14b ec4e Hc3n md5w ha6s as well.

Thanks for checking this move out when I didn't have time.  I'll trust you guys and put it at the top of my ballot too.
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99of9
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #19 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 7:18am »
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on Oct 3rd, 2007, 4:26pm, mdk wrote:

 
After looking at the position a bit more I am now supporting 14b ec4e Hc3n md5w ha6s as well.

 
How do we respond to
15w Ee5w Hg3n Hg4n Hg5n
 
this scares me.  I only said we could ignore the (E)H attack if we moved our camel north!!
« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2007, 7:19am by 99of9 » IP Logged
RonWeasley
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #20 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 7:41am »
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I would respond by capturing the c4 horse leaving the camel on b6.  The dog capture and EH is then addressed by our e.  This look OK to you 99?
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99of9
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #21 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 7:46am »
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you can't... the camel is frozen by his elephant on d5
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #22 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 8:01am »
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OK. Gold elephant goes WEST.  Yes, it's frozen and silver does not threaten the c4 horse anymore.  This gives gold the E-H attack.
 
So now I would rather go back to ed4e Hc3n md5n ha6e.  I want the silver h on b6 so that we can respond to Ee4w (west) by taking the c4 horse and letting the silver camel help counter an E-H without having to worry about a hanging cat next to c6.
 
Others chime in, but I think we want to restart the vote.
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UruramTururam
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #23 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 2:20pm »
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So? Shall we restart?...
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #24 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 3:05pm »
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I was waiting for others to post agreement or otherwise to restart the vote.  Time passed without a comment, so I assume nobody found a refutation to 99of9's reply and that nobody objected to a revote.  Apologies if I didn't wait long enough, I started a revote anyway.  After all, I'm the moderator and you're TheMob.
 
I would encourage any further comments about what the best move is NOW.  I said I would move the a6 horse to b6.  Anybody want to explain why they might rather have it on a5?
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mdk
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #25 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 3:53pm »
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on Oct 4th, 2007, 3:05pm, RonWeasley wrote:
I was waiting for others to post agreement or otherwise to restart the vote.  Time passed without a comment, so I assume nobody found a refutation to 99of9's reply and that nobody objected to a revote.  Apologies if I didn't wait long enough, I started a revote anyway.  After all, I'm the moderator and you're TheMob.
 
I would encourage any further comments about what the best move is NOW.  I said I would move the a6 horse to b6.  Anybody want to explain why they might rather have it on a5?

 
just read the thread now... ill try and do a bit of analysis and then comment. but if the refutation holds then i support 14b ec4e Hc3n md5w hh6w.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #26 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 4:10pm »
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14b ec4e Hc3n md5w ha6s
 
on Oct 4th, 2007, 7:18am, 99of9 wrote:
How do we respond to
15w Ee5w Hg3n Hg4n Hg5n
 
this scares me.  I only said we could ignore the (E)H attack if we moved our camel north!!

How about 15b ha5e mc5n Hc4n dd8s?  Or 15b ha5e mc5n ce7s dd8s?  At first glance, the gold elephant has a hard time keeping our camel away from both of the exposed gold horses.  Sure, Gold can try to launch a delayed EH attack, but why doesn't it lose H for D later just as it would now?  And if Gold tries to have it both ways, doesn't he risk giving up a horse hostage to our camel, so there is no trade, just a strategic advantage to us?
 
I haven't played out many lines yet, and tactics are paramount in such a position, but strategically it would seem Gold is just digging a hole for himself by advancing the second horse.  Gold can't do an EH attack without the E, and Gold needs his E to save his western horse, so the eastern horse advance is hollow, barring some funky tactics.
« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2007, 4:18pm by Fritzlein » IP Logged

99of9
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #27 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 4:17pm »
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on Oct 4th, 2007, 4:10pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Gold can't do an EH attack without the E, and Gold needs his E to save his western horse, so the eastern horse advance is hollow, barring some funky tactics.

It could drag rabbits instead of an EH attack.  I haven't looked at your specific move, but i know that the horse advance also scared me because he was near our rabbits.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #28 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 4:20pm »
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on Oct 4th, 2007, 4:17pm, 99of9 wrote:

It could drag rabbits instead of an EH attack.

OK, we need some lines here.  If we get a horse held hostage by our camel out of it, then it is probably worth allowing a rabbit drag.  Apparently the move we were about to approve without analysis is the one where analysis is most critical.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Move 14
« Reply #29 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 4:29pm »
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on Oct 4th, 2007, 3:05pm, RonWeasley wrote:
I would encourage any further comments about what the best move is NOW.  I said I would move the a6 horse to b6.  Anybody want to explain why they might rather have it on a5?

Yes, I want the horse on a5 because that reserves b6 for our camel if chessandgo pushes our camel to b5.  I'd rather not end up with our camel on a5 because our horse is on b6.
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