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   Author  Topic: Arimaa games shared database  (Read 17028 times)
ocmiente
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #15 on: Mar 10th, 2011, 5:34pm »
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on Mar 10th, 2011, 5:16pm, Fritzlein wrote:

That setup was the default in the client from very early on when it seemed like a good idea...

 
That's interesting.  If I run the same query, but limit it to look at only the human setups (includes human vs. human and human vs. bot games), it jumps to the #2 setup for both gold and silver.
 
Code:

11669...R H D E M D H R...11081...r h d e m d h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r r r c c r r r
 9774...H D C E M C D H... 8575...h d c e m c d h
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r r r r r r
 8220...R H C E M C H R... 7064...r h c e m c h r
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r d d r r r
 5645...D H C E M C H D... 5534...d h c e m c h d
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r r r r r r
 3207...R H D E H D M R... 1996...r h d e h d m r
........R R R C C R R R...........r r r c c r r r
 1023...C H D E M D H C... 1261...r m d e h d h r
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r c c r r r
  904...R H D E M D H R... 1220...r m c e h c h r
........R R C R R C R R...........r r r d d r r r
  901...R H R E M R H R...  950...c h d e m d h c
........R C R D D R C R...........r r r r r r r r
  882...R H C E H C M R...  868...h r c e m c r h
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r d d r r r
  783...R H C E M D H R...  848...r h d e m d h r
........R R R D C R R R...........r r c r r c r r
  707...R M C E H C H R...  813...r h c e h c m r
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r d d r r r
  707...R H R E M R H R...  789...r h c e m d h r
........R D R C C R D R...........r r r d c r r r
  613...H R C E M C R H...  614...d h c e c d m h
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r r r r r r
  568...C D H E M H D C...  566...r h r e m r h r
........R R R R R R R R...........r d r c c r d r
  528...R H C E M C H R...  535...h h e d d c m r
........R D R R R R D R...........r r c r r r r r
  513...R H D E D M H R...  515...h h e d d c m c
........R R R C C R R R...........r r r r r r r r
  454...D H R E M R H D...  503...r h e r d c m r
........R R R C C R R R...........r d c r r r h r
  416...R H E R R C M R...  479...r h r e m r h r
........R D C R R D H R...........r c r d d r c r
  410...R H D E M D H R...  477...r m r e h r h r
........R C R R R R C R...........r c r d d r c r
  408...D H C E H C M D...  454...r h d e d m h r
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r c c r r r

 
So I think that limiting queries to those in which one or both of the human participants has played more than 'n' times before would be useful too, because I expect that people who have played more than a few times will tend not to use that default setup.
 
« Last Edit: Mar 10th, 2011, 5:37pm by ocmiente » IP Logged

Fritzlein
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #16 on: Mar 10th, 2011, 10:53pm »
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Here's the one I don't understand:
 
Code:

  613...H R C E M C R H
........R R R D D R R R

 
I'm trying to think when I saw a human setting up with rabbits on b2 and g2.  It hasn't appeared in any of the five years of the Postal Mixer, where I look at every opening.  Who is playing this?
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mistre
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #17 on: Mar 11th, 2011, 12:08am »
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I am actually curious about a setup - does anyone else play with a horse in the back row lined up behind the Elephant?  I just started to use it and really like it and I was wondering if anyone else has used it.
 
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #18 on: Mar 11th, 2011, 2:11am »
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On a separate subject, would it be possible to update the bot basher page using this database? It seems all of the necessary data for the length of the game and how it ended are available, and I think the results might be interesting, if they were comprehensive. It could probably be done for every available bot without too much trouble. Fritz, could you find this out?
What I'd like is a list like this:
 
Bot | Length of shortest defeat | Opposing player | Game number#
 
With the first game of this length for repeated results.
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #19 on: Mar 11th, 2011, 4:20am »
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on Mar 10th, 2011, 5:34pm, ocmiente wrote:
That's interesting.  If I run the same query, but limit it to look at only the human setups (includes human vs. human and human vs. bot games)

I'm always interested in openings studies, thanks.  Can you give us the list for hvh alone?
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #20 on: Mar 11th, 2011, 8:30am »
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on Mar 11th, 2011, 12:08am, mistre wrote:
I am actually curious about a setup - does anyone else play with a horse in the back row lined up behind the Elephant?  I just started to use it and really like it and I was wondering if anyone else has used it.

I haven't been consistent about it, but when Gold opens unbalanced I like to start with both of horses in the center, one behind the elephant.
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #21 on: Mar 11th, 2011, 12:31pm »
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on Mar 11th, 2011, 4:20am, 99of9 wrote:

I'm always interested in openings studies, thanks.  Can you give us the list for hvh alone?

Yes:
Code:

 1496...R H C E M C H R... 1290...r h c e m c h r
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r d d r r r
 1475...R H D E M D H R... 1260...r h d e m d h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r r r c c r r r
  613...H D C E M C D H...  388...h d c e m c d h
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r r r r r r
  441...D H C E M C H D...  381...d h c e m c h d
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r r r r r r
  207...R H R E M R H R...  162...r h c e m d h r
........R C R D D R C R...........r r r d c r r r
  192...R H C E M D H R...  129...r m c e h c h r
........R R R D C R R R...........r r r d d r r r
  129...R H R E M R H R...  106...r m d e h d h r
........R D R C C R D R...........r r r c c r r r
  104...R H D E H D M R...   95...r h d e m d h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r c r r r r c r
  103...R H D E M D H R...   92...r h r e m r h r
........R C R R R R C R...........r d r c c r d r
   95...R H C E M C H R...   88...r h r e m r h r
........R R R D R R D R...........r c r d d r c r
   83...R H D E M D H R...   85...r h d e h d m r
........R R C R R C R R...........r r r c c r r r
   76...C H D E M D H C...   79...r h d e d m h r
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r c c r r r
   76...D H R E M R H D...   77...r h d e m d h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r r c r r c r r
   69...H M D E C C H D...   72...r h c e h c m r
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r d d r r r
   62...R H C E M C H R...   66...c h d e m d h c
........R D R R R R D R...........r r r r r r r r
   60...R H D E D M H R...   60...r m r e h r h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r c r d d r c r
   54...R H E R R C M R...   58...r h c e m c h r
........R D C R R D H R...........r r r d r r d r
   52...R H D E M C H R...   55...d h r e m r h d
........R R R C D R R R...........r r r c c r r r
   51...H D R E M R D H...   55...r m r e d c h h
........R R C R R C R R...........r c r d r r r r
   49...R M C E H C H R...   54...h d r e m r d h
........R R R D D R R R...........r r c r r c r r

 
and here it's limited to human vs. human games, including only the setups for players after their 100th game (bot games count for determining how many times a player has played):
Code:

 1219...R H D E M D H R... 1065...r h c e m c h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r r r d d r r r
 1210...R H C E M C H R... 1059...r h d e m d h r
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r c c r r r
  232...D H C E M C H D...  193...d h c e m c h d
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r r r r r r
  191...R H R E M R H R...  138...r h c e m d h r
........R C R D D R C R...........r r r d c r r r
  164...R H C E M D H R...  101...r m c e h c h r
........R R R D C R R R...........r r r d d r r r
  163...H D C E M C D H...   90...r m d e h d h r
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r c c r r r
  113...R H R E M R H R...   87...r h r e m r h r
........R D R C C R D R...........r d r c c r d r
   89...R H D E M D H R...   77...r h r e m r h r
........R C R R R R C R...........r c r d d r c r
   88...R H D E H D M R...   75...r h d e m d h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r c r r r r c r
   82...R H C E M C H R...   69...r h d e d m h r
........R R R D R R D R...........r r r c c r r r
   67...H M D E C C H D...   67...h d c e m c d h
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r r r r r r
   61...D H R E M R H D...   67...r h d e h d m r
........R R R C C R R R...........r r r c c r r r
   57...C H D E M D H C...   64...r h c e h c m r
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r d d r r r
   54...R H E R R C M R...   57...r h c e m c h r
........R D C R R D H R...........r r r d r r d r
   48...R H D E D M H R...   56...r m r e h r h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r c r d d r c r
   38...R H D E M C H R...   53...r m r e d c h h
........R R R C D R R R...........r c r d r r r r
   37...R M C E H C H R...   51...r h e r d c m r
........R R R D D R R R...........r d c r r r h r
   32...R H E D D C M H...   46...r h c e d c h r
........R R C R R R R R...........r r r d m r r r
   32...R H D E M D H R...   46...c h d e m d h c
........R R C R R C R R...........r r r r r r r r
   31...R H C E H C M R...   45...d h r e m r h d
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r c c r r r

 
and finally, here is the same list including only this years WC qualifiers (Adanac, Tuks, Hippo, rabbits, Nombril, hanzack, chessandgo and Fritzlein):
 
Code:

  313...R H C E M C H R...  296...r h c e m c h r
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r d d r r r
  234...R H D E M D H R...   88...r h d e m d h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r r r c c r r r
   65...R H R E M R H R...   56...d h c e m c h d
........R C R D D R C R...........r r r r r r r r
   41...D H C E M C H D...   47...r m r e d c h h
........R R R R R R R R...........r c r d r r r r
   34...R H C E M D H R...   47...r h r e m r h r
........R R R D C R R R...........r c r d d r c r
   30...R H R E M R H R...   40...r h c e m c h r
........R D R C C R D R...........r r r d r r d r
   19...R H C E M C H R...   32...r h r e m r h r
........R R R D R R D R...........r d r c c r d r
   16...R H D E H D M R...   29...r h d e m d h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r c r r r r c r
   12...H D C E M C D H...   24...h h c e d r m r
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r d r r c r
   12...R H D E M D H R...   22...d h r e m r h d
........R C R R R R C R...........r r r c c r r r
   11...D H R E M R H D...   21...r m r e h r h r
........R R R C C R R R...........r c r d d r c r
    9...H M D E C C H D...   18...r h c e m d h r
........R R R R R R R R...........r r r d c r r r
    9...H H C E D R M R...   16...r m r e h r h r
........R R R D R R C R...........r d r c d r c r
    9...R H D E D M H R...   12...h h e d d r m r
........R R R C C R R R...........r r c r r r c r
    8...R H C E H C M R...   10...d h c e h c m d
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r r r r r r
    8...R H D E M C H R...   10...h h e d d c m r
........R R R C D R R R...........r r c r r r r r
    8...R H R E M C H R...   10...h h e d c r m d
........R C R D R R D R...........r r c r r r r r
    7...R M C E H C H R...    9...r m c e d c h h
........R R R D D R R R...........r r r d r r r r
    7...R H C E D M H R...    8...r h c e m c h d
........R R R D C R R R...........r r r d r r r r
    7...R H E R R C M R...    7...d m c e h c h d
........R D C R R D H R...........r r r r r r r r

« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2011, 5:27pm by ocmiente » IP Logged

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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #22 on: Mar 11th, 2011, 1:11pm »
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on Mar 10th, 2011, 10:53pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Here's the one I don't understand:
 
Code:

  613...H R C E M C R H
........R R R D D R R R

 
I'm trying to think when I saw a human setting up with rabbits on b2 and g2.  It hasn't appeared in any of the five years of the Postal Mixer, where I look at every opening.  Who is playing this?

 
That's one heck of a query...  My code is quickly turning into incomprehensible mush.  Here are the players who have used that setup more than 10 times:
 
Arimanator, 267
obiwan, 75
kolobok, 56
DorianGaray, 45
BlueScreenError, 22
BilalQ, 13
hamzahq, 12
C4ul, 10
 
73 players have tried it, including 1 time by Fritzlein.  Maybe it was a default setup at one time?  
 
The really scary part is that apparently I've played it 5 times, and I don't remember doing it.  What was I thinking  Huh
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2011, 1:18pm by ocmiente » IP Logged

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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #23 on: Mar 11th, 2011, 4:26pm »
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on Mar 11th, 2011, 1:11pm, ocmiente wrote:
73 players have tried it, including 1 time by Fritzlein.

January 1, 2005.  Six years ago.  How short my memory is.  What was I thinking, indeed?  I do remember that this was a time period in which rabbit-pulling was everyone's favorite strategy.  So my hypothesis (not memory) would be that the theory was the b-rabbit and g-rabbit are less exposed to pulling than a-rabbit and h-rabbit, because a horse can sneak up the side easier than coming in close to the trap.  Or maybe there was some other reason.  Maybe Arimabuff remembers.  Smiley
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #24 on: Mar 11th, 2011, 6:48pm »
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on Mar 11th, 2011, 4:26pm, Fritzlein wrote:

January 1, 2005.  Six years ago.  How short my memory is.  What was I thinking, indeed?  I do remember that this was a time period in which rabbit-pulling was everyone's favorite strategy.  So my hypothesis (not memory) would be that the theory was the b-rabbit and g-rabbit are less exposed to pulling than a-rabbit and h-rabbit, because a horse can sneak up the side easier than coming in close to the trap.  Or maybe there was some other reason.  Maybe Arimabuff remembers.  Smiley

 
Except that you willingly advanced all the rabbits, in doing an E-H attack plus a swarm. Feels very modern. Grin
 
bot_speedy is the old version of Bomb, right? I don't particularly recall Bomb as being fond of rabbit pulling around the edges. Maybe you setup the rabbits that way because you thought that would be good for advancing them up behind the horses.
 
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2011, 6:52pm by lightvector » IP Logged
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #25 on: Mar 11th, 2011, 7:23pm »
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OK, now I remember, maybe.   bot_speedy was bot_bomb playing at 30 seconds per move.  Fotland was still actively developing, patching our formulaic ways of winning so we couldn't bash bomb by rote.  Sometimes speedy would be on a par with or ahead of the best players temporarily, until we figured out a new formula.
 
Possibly we had discovered that speedy would take an attacking horse hostage, and then we could bury the elephant holding the horse hostage.  So Fotland tweaked speedy to simply decline to take an attacking horse hostage with its elephant, and the swarm stopped working.  But I had some vague idea about a "rabbit column" attack with rabbits all up the h-file that would give my camel freedom to jump in and out of the attack along the g-file.  If that is what I was actually thinking, it was indeed modern.  I sort of recall Fotland saying at one point words to the effect of, "so far the rabbit column is only working for you," because speedy was having good success against other players.
 
But all that doesn't explain why I would put rabbits on b2 and g2.
 
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2011, 7:24pm by Fritzlein » IP Logged

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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #26 on: Mar 12th, 2011, 4:42am »
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So when you are in the query mode ... setup I used in all the WC games this year ... did anyone else used it before me? ... What is it's statistic?
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #27 on: Mar 12th, 2011, 11:02pm »
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on Mar 12th, 2011, 4:42am, Hippo wrote:
So when you are in the query mode ... setup I used in all the WC games this year ... did anyone else used it before me? ... What is it's statistic?

This turned out to be relatively easy to query, because compared to the setup ocmiente requested, it just swaps a rabbit with a cat in the back row, and  the elephant with a dog in the front row.  As of the end of February 2011, the setup has been used only by three people, Nombril once, C4ul sixteen times, and Hippo 148 times.  The first use was game 139095 by Hippo on March 23, 2010.  Then it was used sixteen times by C4ul between March 26 and April 8 before Hippo used it a second time on April 10.  Nombril's lone use of the setup was game 158459 on October 27.
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #28 on: Mar 13th, 2011, 4:17am »
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on Mar 12th, 2011, 11:02pm, Fritzlein wrote:

This turned out to be relatively easy to query, because compared to the setup ocmiente requested, it just swaps a rabbit with a cat in the back row, and  the elephant with a dog in the front row.  As of the end of February 2011, the setup has been used only by three people, Nombril once, C4ul sixteen times, and Hippo 148 times.  The first use was game 139095 by Hippo on March 23, 2010.  Then it was used sixteen times by C4ul between March 26 and April 8 before Hippo used it a second time on April 10.  Nombril's lone use of the setup was game 158459 on October 27.

 
Well, so callling it Hippo's setup would be absolutely OK Smiley
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Re: Arimaa games shared database
« Reply #29 on: Mar 14th, 2011, 11:45am »
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So, three of the upsets against the top three Arimaa players (based on WHR)in this years tournament were games in which an unbalanced setup was used, and in two of these the underdog used the unbalanced setup as gold:
hippo vs. fritzlein
rabbits vs. Adanac
chessandgo vs. rabbits
This may not be statistically significant, but maybe this will lead to unbalanced setup usage increasing even more this coming year.  Will have remember to run the query again during next year's tournament to see what happens.
« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2011, 12:47pm by ocmiente » IP Logged

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