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Topic: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006 (Read 7326 times) |
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IdahoEv
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BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« on: Apr 20th, 2006, 4:00pm » |
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What's the value of a step?
The challenge:
By April 30, defeat the highest-rated bot while using no more than three steps in any turn. Post the game number along with the bot name and official bot rating in this thread to qualify for the challenge. I will evaluate the winners on May 1st, 2006.
I am putting up $15US as a prize for the winner. Anyone else who wants to contribute to the prize fund is welcome to.
Full rules and official bot list at http://idahoev.com/arimaa/challenge_april_2006.html
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| « Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2006, 4:01pm by IdahoEv » |
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IdahoEv
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #1 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 4:11pm » |
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1172
Win over bot_Aamira2006P1
Game #29197
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IdahoEv
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #2 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 4:27pm » |
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New high: 1180
Win over bot_ShallowBlue in game 29199
(I just want to make sure people can't get my money *too* easily.)
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Swynndla
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #3 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 5:11pm » |
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Excellent idea!
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frostlad
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #4 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 5:13pm » |
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Now this is an interesting challenge. Grant it many people wonder what to do with a fourth move quite often, but not allowing it at all takes away 4 move kills and things of the sort.
I think that it will also turn out to be good practice because instead you have to maneuver your opponents into a position where they can not possibly save a piece and you can capture it in under 4 moves.
Two questions evan,
1.) fewest moves breaks a tie if it is the same bot?
2.) Are we talking highest rated bot at the time you beat it, or highest rated bot at the end of the month that was beaten?
3.) are we treating games that win by immobilization the same as well?
So actually it wias three questions but close enough.
You might want to just grab the ratings of the bots currently and use those to determine the ranking of bots.
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Swynndla
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #5 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 5:28pm » |
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I think his link to the full rules answers those questions? ...
on Apr 20th, 2006, 4:00pm, IdahoEv wrote:
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IdahoEv
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #6 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 5:34pm » |
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on Apr 20th, 2006, 5:13pm, frostlad wrote:| I think that it will also turn out to be good practice because instead you have to maneuver your opponents into a position where they can not possibly save a piece and you can capture it in under 4 moves. |
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Just from my first three attempts, I can tell you it is much harder than I expected. ShallowBlue nearly beat me. I had no chance at all against GnobbyP1, at least not with my standard botfighting strategy. Not being able to flip a piece effectively adds 1Ply to all of your threats, making them much easier for bots to spot well in advance.
Quote:1.) fewest moves breaks a tie if it is the same bot?
2.) Are we talking highest rated bot at the time you beat it, or highest rated bot at the end of the month that was beaten?
3.) are we treating games that win by immobilization the same as well? |
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1) yes, with earlier game breaking ties on moves.
2) Highest rating as of today.
3)Any win by goal or immobilization (i.e. not repetition or timeout), any timescale with 15 or more seconds per move. I just amended the official rules to include those requirements.
See the official rules and bot list at: http://idahoev.com/arimaa/challenge_april_2006.html
Quote:| You might want to just grab the ratings of the bots currently and use those to determine the ranking of bots. |
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I already did. So no cheating by intentionally losing games to a bot to pump up its' rating mmmkay?
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frostlad
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #7 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 5:52pm » |
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Sorry, I completely forgot to look at your site for the full rules. I should have done that before throwing my 2 cents in.
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Swynndla
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #8 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 6:05pm » |
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Did you say any timescale ... as then I could play bot_Bomb2005CC at blitz speed, but this is really the same as bot_Bomb2005Blitz (but now with a higher rating)?
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IdahoEv
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #9 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 6:09pm » |
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Quote:| I could play bot_Bomb2005CC at blitz speed, but this is really the same as bot_Bomb2005Blitz (but now with a higher rating)? |
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Yes I'll stand by that. Since everyone has the same option, it's fair. The the rules clarification to handle it would be unnecessarily complex.
I just added a rules amendment to the tiebreakers, to distinguish wins as gold from wins as silver.
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Fritzlein
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #10 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 6:16pm » |
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This is a great challenge, IdahoEv, especially because it is such a departure from previous challenges.
You don't mention whether the games must be rated or not. Obviously I'd like to try the challenge with unrated games, since I can't gain even one point against these bots in a rated game, but I can definitely lose points. However, if you allow unrated games to count for the challenge, you will have to exclude all versions of Gnobot2006, since they set up weirdly when the game is unrated.
Give me a ruling before I give this a whirl: do unrated games count?
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Swynndla
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #11 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 6:17pm » |
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You could say that only the bots listed on your rules page are valid, meaning only those bots and only those timelimits that go with those bots. So playing bot_Bomb2005CC would be its standard timelimit (of 2/2/100/10/ ?
Also, I still don't know how to play a bot with a changed timelimit ... how do you do it?
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IdahoEv
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #12 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 6:27pm » |
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Good point.
It would be bad to exclude Gnobby, so let's make it rated games only. Put your neck on the line.
You can do what I did in game 29203. When it has become clear that you can't win using only 3 steps, switch back to 4 steps and see if you can save your butt. Makes for an interesting exercise.
(I'll consider changing this if the community really thinks it's a bad idea).
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Fritzlein
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #13 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 6:36pm » |
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Game 29207, I beat ArimaaScoreP1 with silver in 25 moves. I'm sure that this is by far the easiest bot to beat at this challenge, even though it is the fifth rung on the ladder according to its inflated rating. If ArimaaScoreP1 didn't get to play every newcomer first, I'm guessing it would be rated about 850.
Given what a hard challenge this is, I wouldn't be surprised if no higher bot gets beaten, and the winner is the person who can do in ArimaaScoreP1 in the fewest moves.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2006, 6:37pm by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: BotBasher Challenge - April 2006
« Reply #14 on: Apr 20th, 2006, 6:42pm » |
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on Apr 20th, 2006, 6:17pm, Swynndla wrote:| Also, I still don't know how to play a bot with a changed timelimit ... how do you do it? |
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You set up a game with your preferred time control, and then forced a bot to join your game from that bot's control page.
I don't know if Omar has disabled this feature or not. He should disable it if he hasn't. It's absurd for Bomb2005CC to play at blitz speeds and Bomb2005Blitz to play at two minutes per move, since the time control is the only thing that makes them different. IdahoEv, I recommend you change the rule to prevent ridiculousness, and only allow games at the preferred time control of each bot.
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