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Topic: Ring of Fire Clubhouse (Read 12606 times) |
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Korhil
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #45 on: Jun 28th, 2010, 10:52pm » |
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Just a thought;
Since this is the last round, I gather there would be nothing to stop Europa fielding Chessandgo, PMertens, & Tuks against us.
They would lose a few pts for overspending, but have a very good chance of getting all 9 from winning the 3 games.
Of more significance, it would give the Atlantics the overall vctory since they would easily pass the slim 1pt lead we have if we are resticted to just 3pts for turning up to each match.
Ring of Fire 32 + 3 = 35
Atlantics 31 + 5 = 36 (Only require 1 win of the 3 games.)
Rockies 28 + 7 = 35
Europa 26 + 9 = 35 minus overspend.
Do I understand this correctly?
Seems like the Atlantics have an easy win from here.
Cheers,
Martin
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| « Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2010, 10:59pm by Korhil » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #46 on: Jun 28th, 2010, 11:41pm » |
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What makes you think the Rockies are going to let the Atlantics win any games at all? Easy win my foot! 
But seriously, the flaw in your prediction is counting on Europa to overspend by 1172 points. Their four-point overspending penalty will leave them with at most 31 league points, which means that if the Rockies show up to all of their games they will retain third on tiebreaker, and if the Atlantics and Ring of Fire merely show up to one game each, Europa will finish last. Why would Europa use such a horrible strategy to guarantee themselves last place? Because they want to drag down Ring of Fire so much that they will commit suicide themselves? Perhaps there is a weakness in the current format that a kamikaze team that is willing to give up all hope for itself can play to hurt a particular opponent, but let's not complain too loudly about it until it happens.
If Europa is playing for anything at all, specifically trying to take over third place from the Rockies, then Europa only needs to win one more game than the Rockies win, with the tiebreak being who spent less from the budget. Thus a sane strategy for Europa would be to stay within their budget and hope for a sweep from playing well rather than from generating huge mismatches.
Note that your proposed lineup for Europa gets them at most five points from this round (9 minus 4), even if they sweep. Meanwhile if Europa stays in budget, they can get five points just from winning one and losing two. If they would happen to win two or three games with an in-budget lineup, the additional points would be pure gravy over your kamikaze proposal. I'm thinking Europa is going to be happy you don't get to choose their strategy for them. 
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| « Last Edit: Jun 28th, 2010, 11:55pm by Fritzlein » |
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Korhil
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #47 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 1:12am » |
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on Jun 28th, 2010, 11:41pm, Fritzlein wrote:| Note that your proposed lineup for Europa gets them at most five points from this round (9 minus 4), even if they sweep. |
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I wasn't sure how much they would lose from overspend. My concern was more with the 'negative' approach of trying to ensure we (Ring of Fire) only score the 3, rather than it being a plan for Europa to score the highest possible final point total and place better themselves.
I think it would be unlikely they would use this sort of tactic, but it seems like a possible weakness in the rules that has potential to be exploited in this fashion.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #48 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 3:23am » |
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on Jun 29th, 2010, 1:12am, Korhil wrote:| I think it would be unlikely they would use this sort of tactic, but it seems like a possible weakness in the rules that has potential to be exploited in this fashion. |
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If folks think it is a problem, the way to take care of it is to have the budget be per-round rather than per-season, and have any deduction in points transferred immediately to the other team rather than just disappearing. Then the total score of the two teams could always be twelve, so there would be no way for one team's decision to drag both teams down. But this would be an extra bookkeeping burden on the league coordinator.
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megajester
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #49 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 2:34pm » |
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on Jun 29th, 2010, 3:23am, Fritzlein wrote:
If folks think it is a problem, the way to take care of it is to have the budget be per-round rather than per-season, and have any deduction in points transferred immediately to the other team rather than just disappearing. Then the total score of the two teams could always be twelve, so there would be no way for one team's decision to drag both teams down. But this would be an extra bookkeeping burden on the league coordinator. |
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So... an overspend would be automatically -1 point for the team and +1 point for the opposing team?
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Fritzlein
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #50 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 4:53pm » |
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on Jun 29th, 2010, 2:34pm, megajester wrote:| So... an overspend would be automatically -1 point for the team and +1 point for the opposing team? |
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Yup, or maybe calculated down to the tenth of a point. If it is done per round where a small overspend can't be compensated later by a small underspend, then maybe the penalties need to be more granular.
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knarl
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #51 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 5:07pm » |
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I might be missing something, but I don't like the idea of per round budget, because it would restrict flexibility for the captains, which in turn restricts strategy and working with team availability.
Cheers,
knarl
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Korhil
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #52 on: Jun 29th, 2010, 5:53pm » |
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on Jun 29th, 2010, 4:53pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Yup, or maybe calculated down to the tenth of a point. If it is done per round where a small overspend can't be compensated later by a small underspend, then maybe the penalties need to be more granular. |
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on Jun 29th, 2010, 5:07pm, knarl wrote:| I might be missing something, but I don't like the idea of per round budget, because it would restrict flexibility for the captains, which in turn restricts strategy and working with team availability. |
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A fixed per round budget could be difficult to work with. Fritzlein is correct that only fraction of pts could be handed out since a team could overspend in one round, but remain below the current point loss threshold, and the overspend slightly and concede a full point in the next round.
Perhaps I was overly cynical to have thought of this tactic. I do however still like Fritzlein's concept of making the point system zero sum.
Cheers,
Martin
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Korhil
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #53 on: Jul 4th, 2010, 2:24pm » |
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Well done to Harren for winning the 'must win game' to keep RoF in contention, and to Adanac for winning the final match.
Sorry for being unable to dispose of Woh. I tried to make the game tactically complicated hoping to provoke an error from him. In the end, I blundered. My bad.
Cheers,
Korhil
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Adanac
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #54 on: Jul 5th, 2010, 5:10am » |
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on Jul 4th, 2010, 2:24pm, Korhil wrote:Well done to Harren for winning the 'must win game' to keep RoF in contention, and to Adanac for winning the final match.
Sorry for being unable to dispose of Woh. I tried to make the game tactically complicated hoping to provoke an error from him. In the end, I blundered. My bad.
Cheers,
Korhil |
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Congratulations to the whole team: winning the first ever World League title is a great accomplishment that we can all be really proud of!!
Martin, you had a tough pairing against a much more experienced player but you gave him a great tactical fight! You've been improving steadily during the past few months and your rating will probably jump another couple hundred points if you keep practicing (good for you, not so good for our budget  )
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rozencrantz
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #55 on: Jul 9th, 2010, 12:05pm » |
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I'd like to join, if it's not too late.
I'm Tristan, from Seattle, Washington.
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Adanac
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #56 on: Jul 9th, 2010, 1:25pm » |
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on Jul 9th, 2010, 12:05pm, rozencrantz wrote:I'd like to join, if it's not too late.
I'm Tristan, from Seattle, Washington. |
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Not too late at all, welcome to the world's greatest Arimaa team 
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Adanac
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #57 on: Jul 23rd, 2010, 11:33am » |
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The new World League Season is beginning next week: I've sent a personal message to everyone on the team. Please let me know about your availability as soon as you get a chance. Sorry about the late notice, I just learned about it today
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Adanac
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #58 on: Jul 25th, 2010, 6:35am » |
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Only 2 players are available for the 1st round so far. Can anyone else play?? We only have about 36 hours left to find a 3rd player 
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Adanac
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Re: Ring of Fire Clubhouse
« Reply #59 on: Jul 26th, 2010, 9:07am » |
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on Jul 25th, 2010, 6:35am, Adanac wrote:| Only 2 players are available for the 1st round so far. Can anyone else play?? We only have about 36 hours left to find a 3rd player |
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Last call: Still desperately seeking a 3rd player for next week's match!!
P.S. OK, maybe not that desperate. We do have a couple of players that are available for a single day each. But since they're not available on weekends, there's a high likelihood we could get hit with a forfeit if we're not able to field 3 players with open schedules.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 26th, 2010, 9:11am by Adanac » |
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